It was only mentioned once, but does no one have any problem with Trade Ports being better than Refineries for collecting resources? That seems like a strange oversight...

Refineries were always really weak for what they did, now they're a waste of a hotkey and hardcoded slot for building.

They're a waste of my hard drive space at this point. And the icon is a waste of my HUD space

It is my opinion that this thread has gotten off topic and my constructive criticism is that the black market is now and was before not realistic nor balanced and should have a limit and recharge for that limit, this would prevent the current state of affairs, but of course there'd have to be a max they can buy as well otherwise it would be just as unbalancing since the vsari gather metal and crystal so fast and realistic, but perhaps at random intervals the max could increase, and when the pirate base is destroyed it should decrease.

I apologize for any miss spelling or bad grammar, and with the way this thread has been would like to state this is not directed in a personal manner or meant to be offensive or insulting to anyone

(names from medieval total war 2 took along time to get someone the title Lord of Terror)

ok, when you get right down to it. this is a change that makes the tec more powerful (not necessarily a good thing. not if people play the sides in a balanced amount). Unified the economy. And it also completely eliminated a variety of exploites based on the old market system.

On one hand, its good that those exploits were fixed, on the other, its bad that there is an infinite market that spawns resources out of nothing.

Although it makes some sense in a way, resource production depends on your alligience, so what happens to that 50% of resources that you aren't producing due to lack of control over the populace? well, the end up in the black market... But it still bothers me that there is an infinite resource pit. Just like it bothers me that pirate raids just spawn out of thin air. Its a strong reminder that "this is just a game" and breaks suspension of disbleif.

In an unrelated note, WiC pub-play wasn't 'ruined' by patches. It was still very, very possible - sure, you got stacked teams, but if you looked for servers with a spread of players it was fun. I'm rubbish at RTSs, I have no interest in APM etc, but WiC was a refreshing change. I was able to beat clanners at their own game, since WiC has little scope for 'best pathing'. The 'arty noob' problem is way more annoying than any patch issues.

I'm not a fan of the 1.006 nerfs to AA, however - they were driven solely by idiots on forums complaining about 'IMBA', when a complete novice could pick up the game and be defeating 2 HAA's with no losses to their choppers. ;p

Back to Sins...

TBH... didn't TEC need it?
Now that Javelin's are essentially flying paper airplanes, they really don't bring much to the table anymore past their humongous credit-printing capabilities.

Javelins ARE NOT flying paper airplanets. It was tested and they still own cobalts.
So i have no idea what the dev's are talking about if they say LRM's got nerfed.

At the highest tier of many sports competitive game play require you to have the best team. There is very little difference between soccer/football, paintball , and arranged ladder teams or TF/TFC teams (which are a lot less twitchy due to game mechanics).




Again, the highest level of competitive gaming requires a lot more mental output than you're giving them credit for. This goes for chess masters, professional sports atheletes, weight lifters, and even gamers. All of those things driven by competitive gaming with only one desire: To be the very best.



The miserable failings of a few companies do not out weigh the brilliance in which other companies have conducted themselves producing a million dollar business industry. Mind you, both those games were inferior products from the get go due to funding issues or simply because there were better games out there. Regardless of your pitiful examples, you cannot outweigh the success of Starcraft, Warcraft 3, etc. etc. You may accuse those games of being bland but unfortunately for you many casuals still love those games while competitive gamers enjoy it the same. Unfortunately for you, those games are driven by competitive gaming.

There have been more actual successes than failures. Consider your data and use a wider sample size before coming to your conclusions. Everything you've said has been mainly blanket statements, ad hominems, conclusion jumping, and poor appeals to nearly non-existent authority.

Why am I helping derail this? Probably because I find it more entertaining to reply than it is to contribute since mostly everything has been said and done. The devs will most likely 'fix' this later on just as they did wtih the LRMs.

The Monk:

WiC is merely an example of the devs being retarded. Their ladder system was stupid and therefore, team stacking was normal. But, whatever, I played on the losing team simply because it was funny/competitive/challenging.

It really pains me, despite being such a great helper of the community your analysis on something so simple is off the mark by fathoms. You have not considered the flaws in the system itself. Again, refer to my post where I outline that competitive gaming is a tool for the developers and only those who are skilled enough can utilize it properly - when they do, it becomes an immense cash cow that lasts for possibly ten years.

Oh well.

Irony meter: pegged

=/

How did this change ruin the game? From the few games I played, My TEC was always generating more revenue. Now it prevents players from keeping the price of Crystal/Metal artificially high due to excess credits. A player, on a resource starved map could just continue to jack up the price of one resource, perventing other players from teching as quickly. Yes its a benefit to TEC, but only in the mid to late game when they get their resources up. Trade ports are expensive to build. This also has a bonus effect of once your entire fleet gets shattered the late game, you can now rebuild without waiting for an hour and half to get resources back to speed.

Maybe I'm not fully understanding the mechanic of it, but it seems like a nice added change, rather than a ghost nerf.

It was getting all personal so I stopped reading from the end of page 2 on.
Let me just clarify something first - I play for fun only. Yet I like competitive games and think the only way to improve is to play with someone at your skill level or better. My frist several games with 1.03 today were with Haeso and yet the game feels pretty different than what i got used to and my team /in 4v4 and 3v3/ was clearly less skilled compared to his, they were a heck of a fun games. So I think Haeso is a competent guy about this game, and instead of furiously defending the devs nad framing him as a whiner better try the game from his point of view. Like playing vassary vs tec on a small/medium map for instance. Anyway - you may bet that the devs would love someone as good as him to share his experience, especially when its up to more detailed and specific criticism. That spares them time and drives the game ahead. Do not get me wrong tho - I am not his lawyer, but I share most of his opinion about some of the changes in the new patch.
So here is my tuppence.
As a TEC player, after I picked myself up after the initial difference from what i got used to till then, it was an easy mode shopping cheap resources and constantly overwhelmed my much more aggresive attacker who built quite a big fleet much faster with me. Brought the fight in my space, but got exhausted from credits and couldn't pace up with the market and my economy. The market is not very flexible and after you are not able to speculate and actually profit from speculating on it, or prevent others from doing so, that drives the game back a bit in my opinion. Yet I like the fact everyone can buy cheap resources in the very start of the game tho. And the lower mining rate is something i like too /especially as a TEC player:)/. But after changing the mining rate for instance, you may want to adjust the market in a way that one of the races will not have such a big advantage before the others.
And the next thing I noticed and disliked is the uselessness of the siege frigates. Especially in early games when you do not have many cap ships that makes a siege of a planet pain in the ass and kills the flexibility of your fleet as long as your cap ship(s) need to spend a formidable amount of time just bombing planets. Which kill a big part of the fun and of any tactical advatage eventually. With that slow recource gathering and that fragile, expensive in any aspect, but not quite effective and reliable siege frigates planet sieges barely creeps. And constrains the game unnecessarily. So make siege frigates more affordable please. Or boost the planet bombing skills of the cap ships. Or Mazra's only even.
Thats it on first sight. As usual the truth is somewhere in the middle.

GAnelon

thanks GA, I might not be the nicest guy nor do I claim to be, but I do know what I'm talking about :/ this wasn't a knee jerk reaction, this was simple math and experiance. Vasari vs TEC in anything but point blank or multi system large+ maps, the TEC are better. And in those bigger maps with proper scouting, and an aggressive strategy, it's more than viable to still rush somebody before RA.

Regardless of what you think of either of patch, it's simply a fact that the game was more balanced before 1.03. GE currently has an in house tourney going, and with this change, I won't be able to play vasari and still be able to compete, that really saddens me.

Btw, those were some good games tonight man. Sorry about the dunov rush I just had to try it again, it's so retardedly strong.

Dear god, enough. This happens with every game, balancing issues. Rome wasn't made in a day. There games out there that are 5 years old that still have balancing issue's, to insinuate a game a month or so old should be perfect is madness.

Give it time problems/balancing will be fixed and this wont be the first time a patch will be released fixing X but creating Y.

Sadly this is the reaction you get from teenagers with there extensive years of experience and wisdom

I don't think TEC needed help to begin with. LRM spam is alive as ever, and the first game I played as TEC in 1.03, I spammed way more LRMs in early game than I could in 1.02 thanks to the new market. It's even worse now.

Where were you guys during the beta? A day and half, and already the patch has made the game unbalanced.....Seems people cry "unbalanced!" whenever a patch is released, particularly during the initial stages. Interesting phenomena. No offense to the disgruntled people, just my observations.

Hiii everybody. For the love of all that is holy take a look at this and say it rocks so it can be implemented in a hotfix!

WWW Link

There's unbalanced and there's throwing balance out of the window. This one became pretty obvious about 30 minutes into the first 1.03 game.

Sure it wasn't a few hours, or more, particularly with the many factors needed to gauge balance issues?

For people bitching about LRM spam. That's the early game. That's it, stop whining about it. Obviously you know it's going to come, so do something about it. As advent i spam illuminators vs lrms and this patch makes it more feasible. The beginning of the game isn't supposed to be the end. If you're good, you'll make it to a point where you can build a mixed fleet, even on the smaller maps.

As for build order, the name itself just gives it a bad rep. I have never even used the term until i met Haeso ingame and he kept talking about "build order," and i realized i had one. Is it so bad to know what you need to do in the beginning?

- Colonizing Cap Ship
- 2 civic or 2 military depending on whether u have arctic/volcanic planets near
- Get the other 2 research centers, (or 3 since i play advent a lot)
- Start building LRM/Illuminators

After this point, it's time for some real strategy.
Adding Some Drone Hosts, Defense Vessels, etc.
Colonize until you can research Destra/Kodiak.
Build, fight, adapt, build, adapt, fight. Adapt, Win, fight, build, adapt.

As for the v1.03 Trade Changes, I've been yearning to play Tec more than Advent again lately, so until v1.04, it looks like I'll be using their overwhelming economy to my advantage once again.

Lol np:) I had fun there. Besides a counter was on the way:) Had 2 dozens of lrm's which had been clearing colonies and just got the resources for a dunov. So I would have tried to purge one of your dunov's energy and nuke the other one:)

The game set-up provides a way to balance the cash-black market resource issue a bit. In the setup process, make cash generation slow and mineral mining normal or fast. That helps.

I got some hate for my post, hahaha!

Seriously, mark my words:

Every single patch made on this game is going to have people exploding on this forum claiming this is broken, that is broken, this is now OP, that is a criminal, undocumented change.

There will be one for 1.04, 1.05, people will claim that the developers are ignoring\laughing\spiteing their requests\demands and catering to the casual\competitive\power gamers because they are too lazy\stupid\greedy to do exactly what you want.

Happens in any game that you can get online and play, and will continue to happen for the forseeable future.

Play the game as it is structured, mod it to suit you and your like-minded friends, or just don't bother.

In short, icanhascheesburgr said it best when he said:

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/2001819576783355739_rs.jpg