Take it easy there. I don't know you, don't hate you and I'm not interested in joining your flamewar, but I can tell one when I see it and my unasked advice is that you and anyone else hot under the collar about the forum will feel a lot better once they let it go.

I only bother to give that advice if it looks like things could still be laughed off and patched up between the posters. That's still just about true, but posting the words I quoted pretty much guarantees you'll have to resist at least one more attempt to draw another angry reply from you. It's your thread though and I'll leave you guys to decide whether it should continue or end.

Haeso the reason pepole hate you is because you declare your self the Leader of All that Is Right and True and demand others to stroke your e-peen endlessly till it out reaches the rest of the Leaders of There Own Form of All that Right and True.

Well regardless of the fact that made no sense whatsoever it doesn't matter what you think of Haeso if the points he's making are correct, which they are as almost anyone who has bothered to reply to the topic not to Haeso has agreed with.

Hee hee...

This is funny....

What it boils down to is that people are upset that the Vasari are no longer overpowered and are now losing to people playing other races ( including the TEC...which were a little wimpy)

Sounds like they are trying to balance the races...

I play TEC ( I always play Humans ...even in Starcraft I always played humans)
I haven't played MP yet to due the fact of TEC defiencies and all those stupid LRM spams....and mostly because I don't like people as a whole...

Hee hee...too funny..

Ahh...they took away your godness and now you'll have to relearn how to play...ahhh...

Vasari overpowered? A little sure, if you didn't realize flak countered assailant mass hardcore. (Noobs, and that's it, had the problem, because they never listened to us about flak just essentially molesting LRMs) But the fact that you suggest the other races were underpowered? are you joking? I played random, so did a couple other clan members. Swing and a miss.

And TEC DEFICIENESS? ARE YOU MAD? this patch skewed the balance in the total opposite direction and much worse. You even say yourself you played MP, and you comment on balance? Just get out, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, the AI doesn't use any of the overpowered stratgies so it doesn't seem overpowered. Great argument buddy. See no evil speak no evil hear no evil there must be no evil, right? Ignorance must be bliss.

And right, where have I even mentioned my own personal skill, I've simply said several times I would beat clearly ignorant players, most of you probably could as well. It's not much of an accomplishment. As far as "Declaring myself" that doesn't even make sense, no one here follows me, I'm still an ensign in GE. All I have is my knowledge of the game, the fact that most people who play the game competitively agree with me shouldn't suggest to you that I'm making them all do it Sir. It should suggest to you that regardless of what you think of me, or how I get the point across, it's more than valid. So I'll say again, hate me all you want, but if you're going to be so thickheaded and ignore clear balance issues I don't know what to say, how about you play against me and I'll show you first hand how broken TEC are? Or would you want some replays as evidence, I've got over 15 games played alone since the patch. Or again should I just handicap myself and hope that my opponent sucks so goddamn much that I win regardless of severe imbalances?

This whole topic has gotten ridiculous. Haeso (and every other person that agrees and defends you), you have a point, its just that your tone is so antagonistic that you are turning most people against you, regardless of whether or not what you say is true. By continuing to be such an ass-hat you are making people think that anything you say is inherently wrong. You say you care about this game and want to help fix it's problems, and also that you don't give a damn what people think about you. The problem is that because you don't give a damn, you continue to poke the hornets nest, and are actually hurting your cause. Stop excusing your rudeness behind the fact that you think you're right, and back off.

I recommend that this discussion end, and if I were a mod would close this topic, as it is going no where towards helping this game. The bickering that has gone on in this thread is hurting a logical point at the same time as polarizing the community as a whole.

Grow up. Every one of you. You are embarrassing yourselves.

That's ridiculous, if you've never played MP how can you possibly have any clue what we're talking about?

I'm not embarressed or bothered at all by this thread, what people think of others on an internet forum? Pointless. I'm very different in real life, and so are most of you. But as far as here goes. I play other games with people that if I was with in real life, I would probably start a fight with them - but I respect their knowledge and skill to the point where regardless of how much we might bicker argue and disagree. We work together. Because we realize that for everyone involved including ourselves, our petty differences don't matter one fucking bit.

If people can't respect me because they don't like me, regardless of what I happen to know as a fact, and I've been more than willing to prove, then I don't know what to say other than I'm not the one with a maturity problem here I'm still waiting on an ETA for 1.04 or if the possibility of a hotfix sooner, or if the balance is just going to be ignored in favour of making TEC unstoppable against the mighty AI since the vast majority of single player people are TEC I'm sure.

I just want to say, the reason I posted is that I care about this game as well, and don't want to see the community split into two camps at war with each other as one sees in so many other games. Believe it or not, I do respect what you are saying, based on how much you play the game. I'd just like the competitive crowd to be a little less elitist and a little more diplomatic. If you think you know the game better than anyone, alright then. You may even be right. Don't rub it in the faces of the vast majority of other players. All you are going to accomplish is to turn everyone else against you.

Most importantly of all, stop insulting people for having an opinion different from your own. That is what is so childish about this whole thing. If you don't agree with them, fine. Who cares? State your reasons and move on.

YOU are the one who is stoking this fire. Back off. Let this die, and hope the devs heard your point through all of the "emotional noise," because continuing to push this is just going to create more friction at this point, and its all your own fault.

Ya know, the sad thing is that this post is probably pointless in the end, because more than likely your next response to me or some other joe that posts is going to be just as derogative as any you have made thus far. If this is the case, then you are nothing more than a troll to whom I (and hopefully everyone else) will simply ignore in the future.

I just wanted to voice my agreement with the original poster - changes to the black market and the decrease in resource asteroids all about effectively screwed over Vasari and furthered TEC dominance in the game. Early to mid game Vasari strategy revolves around getting those excess resources out the door through the black market, but the sell-off price at the moment is roughly half of what it used to be, which hobbles the Vasari pretty badly.

This isn't to say that lowered resource asteroids is necessarily a bad thing - it makes the game play a bit slower and teching up quickly is difficult to do (which is good!) because you're not swimming in crystal and metal. Although LRMS are still too good, lowered amounts of available crystal means that your basic light frigate has more long-term usability, as it does not require crystal to produce. The problem, as it was, is that the mechanics of the black market make selling resources financially poor and makes buying them (provided you shift-click quickly enough) quite cost-effective. Factions who normally have a resource abundance but a credit deficiency (Vasari) really lose out with this type of system, while factions that have a credit abundance with slight resource deficiencies (TEC) gain quite a bit. If they'd simply boosted Vasari a bit in some way or another to compensate for this change, there'd be no problem. But they really didn't do that at all. As it was, most 1.02 players went TEC anyways because they had the best LRM and they've got an insane early game economy. They're not too tricky to use either. In 1.03, TEC got even better and Vasari (probably the weakest faction although they're my favorite to play) got even worse. That's no good.

One more note on resource asteroids: a single resource asteroid in unclaimable systems is no good at all. The player is effectively losing out on a planet (something that can support structures and generate taxes as well as mine resource asteroids) for one piddly resource asteroid. Make it three resource asteroids and we're talking, otherwise I always feel cheated when I discover one metal asteroid in the middle of a bunch of space junk. Furthermore, it makes the Vasari's early-game resource advantage even worse - Navigators used to be able to gobble up the majority of the neutral extractors in the early game, giving the Vasari player an early-game boost to compete with the insane early-game TEC trade posts. Now there are only 3 or 4 neutral extractors on the whole map. Owning 1-2 of those isn't exactly going to earn you the envy of anybody.

I'm not going to sweep the problems under the rug, the dev's to my knowledge have said nothing concrete concerning a hotfix, an ETA for 1.04, or if I should just find a new game if balance is going to take a back seat to making TEC unstoppable against that "good" AI.

"probably pointless in the end" Yet you continue to post, and I'm the troll? You by your own definition are the one antagonizing me now, and you know it. So I'm not sure how to respond to this hypocrisy. And as far as the rest of this crap, I'll say again. People attacked me first. Not the other way around, I came out with valid points regardless of how they were conveyed and was flamed by the fanboys who can't accept that the godlike devs they worship are human and make mistakes. The game is less balanced than it was why can't people understand that. It's a simple concept. Whether or not you agree LRMs are balanced or whatever else. You cannot deny that TEC are the most powerful race by a wide margin, anyone with even one foot in reality should be able to realize this instead of getting riled up by criticism about the devs and their game. Instead of blaming me for something I didn't start. I voiced my valid concerns before anyone else so that makes it a kneejerk reaction, okay, so now almost everyone accepts that they were right, yet it's still okay to flame me simply because you don't like the way I do things. Brilliant. How about you and the rest of the people trolling *ME* grow up. I brought valid concerns, the vast majority of people flaming me have brought nothing to the table but fanboyism.

I think the devs said 1.04 is likely coming mid-late next month.

Which IMO, is too long, for this bad imbalance between the races stimed from the black market mainly to continue on.
It would take no time at all to fix it really and release a hotfix. It took me just an hour to fix a bunch of things except for the chat.
Not to mention insufficiant changes to LRMS. Tec's where plain buffed. AntiMedium is such an overpowered damage type on such a high dps unit.

I think it's rather obvious it's needed.. Considerably less people are playing online all of a sudden since 1.03. :/



I just wish so much that we'd get a hotfix this week.

Excerpt from reply #154, by HAESO :



So ... eloquent ...

How can we « hate » such a transparent being ? ...

He pointed out that no planning or tactics were required to jump into a game and win because you can just build TEC trade ports.

Seems a pretty valid point to me. You're just being antagonistic again like a vast majority of people in this thread and moving it nowhere, you have not made a single valid point in your post you are just attempting to start a flame war, so why don't you go do something constructive like watch paint dry?

The fact that I use and abuse these strategies the entire time I also explain to the people losing to me why and how it is broken and ask them to visit the forums and my thread in particular and add in their opinion. If people want to just pretend these imbalances aren't here. Well guess what, I'm going to MAKE YOU SEE THEM. I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure every single player on ICO knows these broken strategies and about this woeful imbalance untill it's fixed. I already have to deal with it against good players, why should all the lazy people who can't take a minute to read a forum go without this wonderfully (Im)balanced tactic of trade port spam.

I'm just informing the community since I'm blatantly ignored by the Devs who insist it's only a problem for us because essentially not everyone knows about it well enough to use it. It's going to be funny if they really do make the AI emulate online players and it starts to abuse it's econ and goes the most effective strategy, HC spam. That combined with it's "cheating" mechanics would just be great.

Go ahead and ignore me as much as you want, but people on ICO listen, people in my games that suggest I go so far as to CHEAT AND HACK THE GAME BECAUSE OF HOW GOOD MY ECON IS should give you a fair idea of how (Im)balanced this game is compared to the last patch.

At least half my games since 1.03 I've explained what the changes were, told people what I was doing, and they've come right back and said that it's imbalanced/unfair/ etc. And I've directed them to the forums where I explain that it most certainly *is* a game breaking imbalanced race when coupled with the good strategies I've come up with.

So carry on with the flame wars. I'll be doing my civic duty so to speak and informing people of how "great" this patch is since the Devs can't take all of the couple hours it would take to balance it. Instead of people suggesting that I spend hundreds of hours trying to get people to download it, install it correctly, agree with me about the tiny tiny insignificant details. Versus the again, several hours of them doing it. That's unreasonable, and completely unfair to the people who want a balanced game. I shouldn't have to spend an hour before each game getting new people to download my mod just so I can use VARIETY again, and play the other races instead of TEC every goddamn time.