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The 2nd Demigod Community Tournament - Rules and Registration

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The 2nd Demigod Community Tournament - Rules and Registration

Pacov's Last Stand

from Demigod Forums

Welcome to the 2nd Demigod community tournament (Pacov's Last Stand) - rules and registration thread!   

UPDATE 1:  The scheduling thread has been opened.  Please head over there and post when you are available to play:  http://forums.impulsedriven.com/399006

UPDATE 2:  A new version of uberfix is available AND is required for the tournament.  Please see here and download/install:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399037

UPDATE 3:  The RESULTS thread has been opened.  Please head over there to track your wins/losses/replays:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399047

Update 4:  Registration is now closed.  Alternates are still allowed, but no new teams will be allowed to register at this point.

Update 5:  Added ventrilo (voice chat) server information for those of you that would like to use voice chat.  It also helps in finding people that are ready to play their matches!

Update 6:  The replay commentaries/discussions thread has been opened:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399150.  Check this thread out for news on live streaming events during the tournament along with commentaries and video for some of the games in this tournament!

This thread will cover all of the relevant rules and registration information.  Please see below for all of the details.

The tournament began on 10/16/2010.  Please be aware that this tournament will not begin and end on 10/16/2010.  It will actually take several weeks to complete. 

Background 

In April 2010, we started our first community demigod tournament.  The tournament was 2v2 and certain demigod selections were restricted.  The tourney carried a crash prize donated by people in the community and was won by the two man team of zen_god and King_of_thorns.  For more details on that tourney, read up here: (http://forums.demigodthegame.com/380837). 

Tournament Format

  • The tournament will be played as a 3v3 round robin tournament.  Round robin simply means that there is no elimination outside of disqualification.  Your team will play each and every team.  
  • Each match in the tournament will consist of 3 total games. 
  • We will track every win and loss.  The team with the most wins is the winner of the round robin portion of our tournament.
  • After the round robin has concluded, the top 4 teams will battle it out elimination style in the best 2 out of 3 games. 

Tournament Rules

  • All matches will be played on cataract with default settings (the only exceptions being AI HP on Very High and AI Gold/XP on low). 
  • Each team will play 1 round on the light side, then 1 round on the dark side.  In the 3rd round, if each team has 1 win, the team that had the fastest win in game 1 or 2 gets to pick the side they want to be on.  If one team already has 2 wins, the team with no wins gets to pick the side they want to be on (keep in mind the following rule). 
  • The team that is on the dark side must pick their characters and ready up first.  Then the team on the light side gets to pick and the dark side does not have a chance to adjust their characters.
  • Players using oak may not use spirits to perform a citadel rush.  Any player doing this will have their entire team disqualified for that game giving a win to the opposing team. If you don't know what this terminology means, odds are you aren't citadel rushing with spirits. 
  • Players MUST form their own teams
  • One player from each game must report their stats in.  We will open up a tournament stat tracking thread after the tournament begins. 
  • To track your wins, you must do the following - post the replay at gamereplays.org.  If you have issues with gamereplays, upload the file to rapid share and provide us with a link.  One player from the winning team should do this for each and every match. 
  • Each team must complete a minimum of 2 matches (6 games) per week.  If there are extenuating circumstances, then the decision making panel will review them.  Failure to complete 2 matches per week will result in a disqualification for your team. 
  • ALL teams are required to use the version of the uberfix mod here:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/399037

Alternates

  • Each team is allowed to have exactly 1 alternate
  • The alternate must not be participating in the tournament (either directly registered for the tournament or on a duplicate account). If it is discovered that the alternate is a player that is already in the tournament, but using a different account, all of those matches will be forfeited.
  • The same alternate cannot be used by multiple teams
  • If a team wins a cash prize with an alternate on their team, that team must determine how they will handle the prize money.  The decision making panel has nothing to do with how you choose to split up the money.

Prize 

There will be a cash prize > $600.  Jongalt will be handling the collection of the money for this tournament.  We are discussing the prize money in this linked thread:  http://forums.demigodthegame.com/398009.  We appreciate any contributions to the prize.  YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO PAY TO PLAY IN THIS TOURNEY. 

Here is how we will be splitting the winnings from the pot:

  • 10% goes to the team that wins the round robin
  • 50% of the balance goes to the winner of the playoffs
  • 25% of the balance goes to the 2nd place winner of the playoffs
  • 15% of the balance goes to the 3rd place winner of the playoffs
  • Participation raffle - 1 player from a team that has completed all of their games in the tournament will be entered into a random drawing after the tournament ends.  That player will receive a prize of $30 as incentive for finishing the tournament.  This money will be taken from the total cash pot before any other money is distributed by percentage.  Any player that has won a cash prize is NOT eligible for the participation raffle.

Demigod Selection

Each 3 man team must use the following formula to make their Demigod character selections based on a 7 point maximum.  Be aware that no duplicate demigods are permitted on the same team.  This means you cannot choose random.

  • Demon Assassin/Regulus - 1 point
  • Oculus/Queen of Thorns/Senda/Torch Bearer - 2 points
  • Lord Erebus/Oak/Rook/Unclean Beast - 3 points

Tournament Time Zone

The official time zone of the tournament is set for EST US time.  Players that are outside of that timezone are certainly welcome to play.  However, if there are significant scheduling difficulties due to players unable meet at the same time, the team furthest outside of the EST zone will most likely be disqualified or forfeit that match.  This rule does not excuse folks in the EST zone from any responsibility.  All parties in this tournament should endeavor to schedule their matches with other teams and try to be as flexible as possible. 

Decision Making Panel

This tournament will be governed by a decision making panel consisting of pacov, McShane, hedgie with Jongalt as an alternate.  The panel's purpose is as follows:

  • Review any scheduling issues and making the final decisions with regards to disqualification. 
  • Reviewing replays as required (crashes and desyncs)
  • Resolving any disputes that arise

The panel's decision on all matters will be the final word for this tournament. And last, the members of the decision making panel will not make any decisions on the games they are playing in.  We didn't have a panel in place for the first tournament and that was a mistake. 

How will we handle crashes

If there is a game crash, the players involved in that match should see if they can come to a consensus on the probable outcome of the match.  If there is no clear winner, the 2 teams should replay the match using the exact same demigods and sides (light/dark).  If there was a clear winner at that point in the game, then that team should be awarded the win.  If the 2 teams disagree on the outcome, then the decision making panel will review the replay of the match and render a decision.  Be aware that the decision making panel must agree that a specific team was going to win or the results will be thrown out and the match redone.  Please be thoughtful if you want the panel to review a match. 

How we will handle invalid game states

The lastgamereplay file is still created in the event of an invalid game state, so it is still possible to review the results of a match.  In the event of an invalid game state, players should attempt to resolve the issue exactly the same way as game crashes.  If you believe foul play occurred, submit the replay along with any screen shots, etc, as evidence and the decision making panel will review.  If there is a CLEAR consensus that a team is willingly triggering invalid game states, that team will be disqualified after a thorough review of the facts and will no longer be able to participate in the tournament.  If your game does crash, it might be advisable to take a screen shot of the crash as proof.  Be aware that we know invalid game states can occur without any sort of foul play, so please be mindful when submitting requests for review.

Current Teams:

  1. Soccermom, OMG_Zex, pacov
  2. Orcun, McShane, Defender
  3. beastmode, generalG, stiffyG
  4. IamKira, Mith, Zen_God
  5. bad daddy/chiefy/trousersnake
  6. jongalt/OMG_nomilarac/thundercles
  7. rwcupcrazy/pwnage_69/nojokes
  8. Iz_, Darz4, Darkliath
  9. Anneliese_the_Beserk/Udo_Juergins/Don_Doen
  10. Eltimes/Lols_SeaWolf/DreamCatcher
  11. OMG_jona__/4nana/kalel
  12. Nacelle, VulturePwns, LoCoJoK3R
  13. RobertMunch/FC-FuneralPortrait/DeadDemi
  14. Commando51, Rezzan, and T-Schert
  15. arkANG3L, swordguyj, and Firefromthesky
  16. brasher01/brokenstrong/beckad1(prozombe)
  17. Maxsteel32/Sebacoyl/Stilr
  18. Mortora/Nate_the_Great1992/SD_Zebrafox
  19. Bartleby/aberrator/nnnils\
  20. tsk-mandingo/ruiprsg_/kobzos

Registered Alternates:

Please be aware that other players are elligible to be an alternate based on the rules outlined in the alternates section.  I've simply left this list here so teams will know at least a few of the players that might be available as alternates. 

  1. busdude
  2. doggu
  3. gl-Spectre
  4. johnkout7
  5. jorune2112
  6. Kiamori
  7. OmicronLyrae
  8. Ouch-That-Hurts
  9. Renfri
  10. Rocchinho
  11. Taharos
  12. volen20

For any of you that would like to use it, we have a public ventrilo (voice chat) server that you are welcome to use for the tournament.  Even if you don't have a microphone, if only 1 person on your team does, it can be very useful to use voice chat (at least 11 of the registered teams will be using voice chat.  Why not you too?

Here's all of the info you need to get started:

Here is where you can download the client (its free): http://www.ventrilo.com/download.php

Here are instructions on how to use ventrilo to connect to a server:  http://www.ventrilo.com/setup.php

And here's the needed server info:

Server Name:  Lagwar's Ventrilo Server
Hostname:  oxygen.typefrag.com
Port: 50216

I have created some password protected channels for those of you that would like to use the server.  Scroll down until you see channel Oh My Demigod.  You will then see tournament channel 1/2/3.  The password for these channels are demigod.  Let me know if you have any questions. 

demigod
1,808,311 views 924 replies
Reply #601 from Demigod Forums Top

I agree with hedgie about erebus and oak but don't really see a way to fix it. Also  you can't change the whole concept just because one combo seems better 'so far'.  It is just like the other tourney,  one combo will always be the best in theory which means you either find a better strat or do a mirror match.  From what I have seen all the possible combos have not been played to their best.  I believe once the tourney starts everyone will start pulling a bunch of fun things out of their theory hat and surprise people.  Isn't that what competition is all about bringing the best to the table and learning new things, instead of limiting yourself and others.  Besides a good tb should be able to shut down occ or sedna Teseer can :P.

 

Jongalt check your math,  I dont think you took out the round robin money before you did the percentages in some of the splits :P!  Esp able to see in the totals between 2 and 3.

Split I want is

70$ round robin

50 1st

35 2nd

15 3rd

 

nice even 20 % drop, more money to the top.

Also what is the robin round exactly??

 

 

Reply #602 from Demigod Forums Top

I believe once the tourney starts everyone will start pulling a bunch of fun things out of their theory hat and surprise people. Isn't that what competition is all about bringing the best to the table and learning new things, instead of limiting yourself and others.

wise words

Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #603 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 600




Basically, you see a problem with one particular combination and scream OP (when it really isn't that bad to begin with. Again, Rook shuts her down) and attaching a band-aid to stop that one combination instead of looking at the other flaws.

Out of curiosity how many games have you played in the past 2 weeks hedgie? 1? 0? How many of them have been against the combination of Zen, Mcshane, Orcun, Jona, Pacov, Soccer, Renz, Rawrrr, Nomilarac? Oh Zero thats right. I have played a shit ton of games these last few weeks and have noticed a trend. You are out of practice and out of line with this comment. Go play a few games.

Reply #604 from Demigod Forums Top

blah blah, ad hominem, blah blah

Reply #605 from Demigod Forums Top

homina, homina, homina. 

Voting will close on the payouts tonight - if you haven't voted, plz chime in asap.

Reply #606 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 607
blah blah, ad hominem, blah blah

Its hard for me to make a rational argument with you when you are completely out of the meta game right now. Saying that I am running around like a noob crying OP is rediculous when you haven't even played a game with tourney rules. You have no knowledge of what combo's are better (even if just slightly) than others right now because you have no experience playing as and against combo's such as UB, OC, Sed. So anything that you say concerning balance is worth a penny to my dollar.

The main issues I have with the current list are these match ups

Tier 1 + oc + sed > anything that isn't also tier 1 + oc + sed

a close second is queen over sed

a close 3rd is queen + sed + tier 1

I see reg and DA not being viable at all against those teams, they just become meat in the blender.

Reply #608 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_ZEX, reply 606

Out of curiosity how many games have you played in the past 2 weeks hedgie? 1? 0? How many of them have been against the combination of Zen, Mcshane, Orcun, Jona, Pacov, Soccer, Renz, Rawrrr, Nomilarac? Oh Zero thats right. I have played a shit ton of games these last few weeks and have noticed a trend. You are out of practice and out of line with this comment. Go play a few games.

Don't discredit hedgie, he knows his stuff. On top of it not much has been changed since he was active. Also the people who made this game and balanced it were not absolute pros in this game and did a very good job imo. Deep, overall thinking and weighting can sometimes be enough. And I don't think we have enough good players that can really draw absolute balancing conclusions. The absolute pro has not been born yet in Demigod due to a small community.

Reply #609 from Demigod Forums Top

ZEX: Out of the two games I've played in the past week (one of which was before the time of your post) I played one game.

It was nom + random person with me and kalel. KALEL went AFK 10 minutes into the game. 

Then I come back and play a 45 minute game, tourney rules, with Thunder, Pacov, Nom, Jona. Sure, I lost, But the meta is stale and not much has changed and I was able to hang just fine. Made mistakes, sure, sure. But I did fine. 

\topic and your weak attempt at undermining my credibility. 

Reply #610 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting nacelle, reply 610
New team: Muncie Gamers

Nacelle, VulturePwns, LoCoJoK3R

That's great guys.  I'll add you to the teams.  I know the original post is long, but please take a few minutes to read it and familiarize yourself with the rules of the tournament.  Looking forward to playing!

Reply #611 from Demigod Forums Top

Ok guys - keep in mind the deadlines.  You must register AND have a team formed by 10/15/2010.

Also the vote for how we spliting the pot ends in 30 min.

Reply #612 from Demigod Forums Top

Awesome Nacelle, i'm glad to see you and your sons sign up!  I can't wait until my kids get old enough to play !

I'll also support the Loosest Hanging OGT member, thunder and agree that the new system suggested by cowbutt can be good.

Cowbutt, you also need to pick one system go with it, i'm assuming that system would be the second one you suggested.  Hedgie does have a point though when saying that whatever system is used there will be some more popular combos.  The intent of the system is primarily for counters though.  So the biggest question is, with the current system, are there good counters for most if not all combo's (without requiring mirroring)?  Does the new proposed system increase the counterability? 

My only problem with the proposed system is that the voting has closed and the decision was made. I think we need to be malleable though and make sure that what we put in place would be the most effective.  I think that the decision making panel should discuss the issue and see if it the new system should:

1.  Be put to a vote against the current.

or

2.  Be denied for any various reason.

or

3.  Just Implemented.

Pacov, Hedgie, Mcshane - what do you guys have to say on the issue.

 

 

Reply #613 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_Jona, reply 604


 


Jongalt check your math,  I dont think you took out the round robin money before you did the percentages in some of the splits !  Esp able to see in the totals between 2 and 3.

 


 

#3 is right, however the actual $ totals for #2 looks like im missing $70 or so.  I realized my mistake - sorry about that.  All of the $'s will increase slightly

RR =$70

1st = $350

2nd= $175
3rd = $105

Reply #614 from Demigod Forums Top

Pacov, Hedgie, Mcshane - what do you guys have to say on the issue.

I dig the original system - don't care that much, but think we will have good variety with it. 

Reply #615 from Demigod Forums Top

I would like to not register for the not tournament which is not coming up soon.

Reply #616 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_blackmage, reply 618
I would like to not register for the not tournament which is not coming up soon.

you know you'll get games going though  - good chance to play demigod and not sit in lobbies at the very least.

Hey jon - if you get a chance, please count up the results of people that voted for the payout breakdowns.  If not, I'll take care of it in the morning sometime.  Thanks!

Reply #617 from Demigod Forums Top

Sign me up, currently have no team, would like to play with Omicron tho (no way of contacting him tho)

Reply #618 from Demigod Forums Top

Sedna being "OP" in tourney, discussion:

The design of Sedna is clearly as a "General" counter. The most obvious skill that indicates this is Counter Healing. 

  • Sedna can usually beat most generals in a 1v1 engagement until Catapults/Giants come out. The two exceptions are Queen and Occulus, due to their large AoE and natural ranged attack exploiting flaws in Sedna (Sedna has no way to punish a demigod from kiting, unlike UB's Spit or Oak's Penitence). 
  • On the other hand, Sedna loses to most assassins in a 1v1 engagement. Fire TB and Rook. UB level 1 without a monk with Scailmail, Blood and Banded beats a Sedna level one (neutral HP flag).

A properly played Sedna can beat a UB while out of a lane. However, in practice, the UB is on mana side, Sedna on HP (and sharing XP), the Sedna spent at least 900 gold on Monks (the UB didn't) and usually the Sedna will have spent a good amount of gold on citadel upgrades so there is that too. End result is usually the UB is significantly stronger. However, in a fantasy world where both the Sedna and the UB are at equal level and equal gold the Sedna can put up a good fight and can sometimes push back a UB (I've done it plenty of times before). 

Obviously, Sedna doesn't lose to a Reg or a DA (until he gets high level). However, Reg can still be annoying and kill monks and deal damage and the Sedna really can't do anything about it. 

So, to metagame, if you see a Sedna and are worried about it, going 2x Generals is a losing proposition. It would usually be better to go 2x Assassin. The argument about having only 1 set of monks is more-or-less moot when Counter Healing enters the equation. 

See Occ-Sed-UB (that's the "Scary combo", right?). I would try a Rook-Fire TB-Occ. A Rook completely shuts down a Sedna and counters a UB as well, and Occulus doesn't get to be a serious Rook counter until at least levels 8 or 10 or so.

TB and Occulus have mass AoE and will scorch the Sedna's monks over and over. Regarding an interrupt, work in a point of Deep Freeze level 11, or 9 or something. You can figure it out. 

Half of the problem is that the "support demigods" are underrepresented (Oak, Sedna and Queen are the primary three. Erebus sort of classifies because he such an inexpensive demigod he can easily buy lots of citadel upgrades without having to gimp himself). 

  • By making Erebus-Oak such a high point value, we run into issues where many of the demigod combinations lack a true support character, and instead consist of just 3 dps demigods (of varying capabilities and roles). When 3 dps demigods run into a 2 dps + support we run into issues. 
  • Therefore, the correct solution is not to remove demigod selection options. Let's say right now we have 10 "viable" combinations, of varying degrees of effectiveness. But, they are all close enough that the game would go to the team who played the best, rather than who picked the stronger team (that is, combo #10 has a fair chance to beat combo #1 even if they are just a little bit better). 

Removing combos #1 and #2 (and I don't even think Sed-Occ-UB is the strongest combo, I think a few other take that, but w/e) means that we run into the same issue... oh no combo #3 is now the strongest, that's not fair! Unless, of course, the difference of power between #10 and #3 is "acceptable". That means that #2 and #1 have something in particular that makes them up-and-over the other combinations and breaks the "Skill Rule". 

I believe that if we were to re-evaluate the demigod selection rules, reducing the price of Erebus and Oak would be a better solution rather than increasing Sedna and Occulus. 

However, I did sit and think about it for the last half an hour and tinkered around with the numbers, but I could not figure out a way to make Erebus OR Oak good on a team without driving the demigod choices to favor a 2 T1 + T2 (not even 2 T1 + T3), or basically changing nothing except the numbers but keeping most of the teams the same. 

I still do not see Sedna, Occ, UB as a go-to combination of domination. However, Cow's tweaked values eliminate all Sed + Occ + T1 combinations, which I dislike. If Sed, Occ, UB is OP, would:

  • Sed, Occ, Ereb be OP?
  • Sed, Occ, Oak?
  • Sed, Occ, Rook?
  • Or is it only Sed, Occ, UB that seems to be a problem. 

If the answer is yes to all those, then the issue lies with Sed + Occulus being allowed along with any other demigod.

If the answer to no is any of those, then whatever the third demigod that is may be overpriced and Cow's chart needs to be tweaked around to reflect that. 

 

Reply #619 from Demigod Forums Top

Ah you're right, keep it as it is.   Sedna, Occ, and UB are strong but I don't think uncounterable.  Not really worth eliminating all those other potential combos just to get rid of one.  For example, this probably isn't what we would use in the tournament but Orcun had the idea to counter it with an all assassin pure damage team and we dominated http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/game/1527285/player/35153/ There are options, and like you suggested I think fire TB is probably the key.  I disagree about Rook though, most times he might be more of a liability against that combo.

Reply #620 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting gL-Spectre, reply 620
Sign me up, currently have no team, would like to play with Omicron tho (no way of contacting him tho)

Adding you to the roster, wall. 

Sedna, Occ, and UB are strong but I don't think uncounterable.

I agree as well.  I do think its a strong team for the tourney, but certainly can be countered.  I personally think we should stick with the original list.  I'd be more than surprised if all of the tier 1 teams went with this combo.  Plus, remember the tourney rules for dg selection and mcshane's comment:

Orcun had the idea to counter it with an all assassin pure damage team and we dominated

Now think that the team on dark side has to pick their dg's and ready up first.  This means the team on light can always try to either mirror or come up with a counter.  Good players will adapt.  Before they came up with going with all assassins, they tried team mega interrupt/stun as a counter, with horrible results.  A game later, they were trying out assassins and came out on top.  What I think is great is that there were a variety of options and choices they could make to attempt to counter.   

Reply #621 from Stardock Forums Top

Here are the final results of how we will be handling the pot split. 

Current Votes

Split 1

 lord-orion

Split 2
Jongalt, Thunder, Zen, Nomilarac, hedgie

Split 3

Anneliese

Split 4

Winner = Pot Split 2

10% goes to the team that wins the round robin

50% of the balance goes to the winner of the playoffs

25% of the balance goes to the 2nd place winner of the playoffs

15% of the balance goes to the 3rd place winner of the playoffs

 

 

Next thing to briefly discuss:  for the participation raffle, how much money do we want to allocate?  I think we probably should provide a flat amount, but that the prize should go to exactly 1 individual drawn at random from all of the players not in the money that completed all of their tournament games.  Anyway, what sounds like a good amount considering that the money is coming out of the pot?

 

Edit - JONA - round robin is a style of tournament where each team plays every single team.  In our tournament, each team will play each team a total of 3 times.  Once everyone has played everyone, we will declare a winner of the round robin portion of the tourney.  Then, the top 4 teams (teams with the most wins) will battle it out and whoever wins the final series is the winner of the tourney. 

Reply #622 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting gL-Spectre, reply 620
Sign me up, currently have no team, would like to play with Omicron tho (no way of contacting him tho)

I sent a msg to him for you. 

Reply #623 from Demigod Forums Top

You beat me to it Pacov, thanks for tallying the current vote system.

As far as the pot is concerned we currently have $520 in-hand but i still need to upload my portion which will occur by the end of the month. This means an abolsute pot min. of $620.00 however based on the confirmed pledges we will be close to $700.00

we could do a percentage for the raffle, like 5% ($35) or 7% ($49) and take those percentage points off the 1st, 2nd 3rd place winners equally across the board.  We could do a fixed cost for the raffle and split the remainder up per the percentages

 

OR

we could do something a little off the wall. 

Everyone has stuff laying around that they don't use anymore, whether its some old ram, an old video card, ethernet cabling, a cool but unused toy, a good book, anything purchased from thinkgeek.com that they don't use, a movie etc. that they could donate to a potluck.  I could PM my work address to the donators, and i certainly (alone) have enough stuff to fill a good size box.  Some rules would have to be put in place, ig.  No bio products, drugs, or broken things etc.  Personally i think this idea is quite exciting but it would require that people actually take the time to ship things to me.  The expense at the post office is quite minimal but that would preserver the pot for the tourney winners, could very well offer a cool box of goods to the raffle winner, well in excess of a financial token.

I would also suggest keeping the items in the box secret until the box is received by the raffle winner.  I would take pictures of everything received, with the donators credited and post afterwards as well.

So what is it going to be then 'eh?

j

 

 

Reply #624 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting awuffleablehedgie, reply 621

Sedna being "OP" in tourney, discussion:

The design of Sedna is clearly as a "General" counter. The most obvious skill that indicates this is Counter Healing. 


Sedna can usually beat most generals in a 1v1 engagement until Catapults/Giants come out. The two exceptions are Queen and Occulus, due to their large AoE and natural ranged attack exploiting flaws in Sedna (Sedna has no way to punish a demigod from kiting, unlike UB's Spit or Oak's Penitence). 
On the other hand, Sedna loses to most assassins in a 1v1 engagement. Fire TB and Rook. UB level 1 without a monk with Scailmail, Blood and Banded beats a Sedna level one (neutral HP flag).

A properly played Sedna can beat a UB while out of a lane. However, in practice, the UB is on mana side, Sedna on HP (and sharing XP), the Sedna spent at least 900 gold on Monks (the UB didn't) and usually the Sedna will have spent a good amount of gold on citadel upgrades so there is that too. End result is usually the UB is significantly stronger. However, in a fantasy world where both the Sedna and the UB are at equal level and equal gold the Sedna can put up a good fight and can sometimes push back a UB (I've done it plenty of times before). 

Obviously, Sedna doesn't lose to a Reg or a DA (until he gets high level). However, Reg can still be annoying and kill monks and deal damage and the Sedna really can't do anything about it. 

So, to metagame, if you see a Sedna and are worried about it, going 2x Generals is a losing proposition. It would usually be better to go 2x Assassin. The argument about having only 1 set of monks is more-or-less moot when Counter Healing enters the equation. 

See Occ-Sed-UB (that's the "Scary combo", right?). I would try a Rook-Fire TB-Occ. A Rook completely shuts down a Sedna and counters a UB as well, and Occulus doesn't get to be a serious Rook counter until at least levels 8 or 10 or so.

TB and Occulus have mass AoE and will scorch the Sedna's monks over and over. Regarding an interrupt, work in a point of Deep Freeze level 11, or 9 or something. You can figure it out. 

Half of the problem is that the "support demigods" are underrepresented (Oak, Sedna and Queen are the primary three. Erebus sort of classifies because he such an inexpensive demigod he can easily buy lots of citadel upgrades without having to gimp himself). 


By making Erebus-Oak such a high point value, we run into issues where many of the demigod combinations lack a true support character, and instead consist of just 3 dps demigods (of varying capabilities and roles). When 3 dps demigods run into a 2 dps + support we run into issues. 
Therefore, the correct solution is not to remove demigod selection options. Let's say right now we have 10 "viable" combinations, of varying degrees of effectiveness. But, they are all close enough that the game would go to the team who played the best, rather than who picked the stronger team (that is, combo #10 has a fair chance to beat combo #1 even if they are just a little bit better). 

Removing combos #1 and #2 (and I don't even think Sed-Occ-UB is the strongest combo, I think a few other take that, but w/e) means that we run into the same issue... oh no combo #3 is now the strongest, that's not fair! Unless, of course, the difference of power between #10 and #3 is "acceptable". That means that #2 and #1 have something in particular that makes them up-and-over the other combinations and breaks the "Skill Rule". 

I believe that if we were to re-evaluate the demigod selection rules, reducing the price of Erebus and Oak would be a better solution rather than increasing Sedna and Occulus. 

However, I did sit and think about it for the last half an hour and tinkered around with the numbers, but I could not figure out a way to make Erebus OR Oak good on a team without driving the demigod choices to favor a 2 T1 + T2 (not even 2 T1 + T3), or basically changing nothing except the numbers but keeping most of the teams the same. 

I still do not see Sedna, Occ, UB as a go-to combination of domination. However, Cow's tweaked values eliminate all Sed + Occ + T1 combinations, which I dislike. If Sed, Occ, UB is OP, would:


Sed, Occ, Ereb be OP?
Sed, Occ, Oak?
Sed, Occ, Rook?
Or is it only Sed, Occ, UB that seems to be a problem. 

If the answer is yes to all those, then the issue lies with Sed + Occulus being allowed along with any other demigod.

If the answer to no is any of those, then whatever the third demigod that is may be overpriced and Cow's chart needs to be tweaked around to reflect that. 


 

I vote for the status quo. hedgie is always a step ahead :)

Reply #625 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting OMG_Jongalt26, reply 626
You beat me to it Pacov, thanks for tallying the current vote system.

As far as the pot is concerned we currently have $520 in-hand but i still need to upload my portion which will occur by the end of the month. This means an abolsute pot min. of $620.00 however based on the confirmed pledges we will be close to $700.00

we could do a percentage for the raffle, like 5% ($35) or 7% ($49) and take those percentage points off the 1st, 2nd 3rd place winners equally across the board.  We could do a fixed cost for the raffle and split the remainder up per the percentages

 

OR

we could do something a little off the wall. 

Everyone has stuff laying around that they don't use anymore, whether its some old ram, an old video card, ethernet cabling, a cool but unused toy, a good book, anything purchased from thinkgeek.com that they don't use, a movie etc. that they could donate to a potluck.  I could PM my work address to the donators, and i certainly (alone) have enough stuff to fill a good size box.  Some rules would have to be put in place, ig.  No bio products, drugs, or broken things etc.  Personally i think this idea is quite exciting but it would require that people actually take the time to ship things to me.  The expense at the post office is quite minimal but that would preserver the pot for the tourney winners, could very well offer a cool box of goods to the raffle winner, well in excess of a financial token.

I would also suggest keeping the items in the box secret until the box is received by the raffle winner.  I would take pictures of everything received, with the donators credited and post afterwards as well.

So what is it going to be then 'eh?

j

 

 

either sounds fine. The latter sounds like more work, but if you can take the time for it why not :)