What happened to the third micro-expansion? What gives Ironclad.

oh well.  at this point id rather see a new game be put out than a third expansion anyway.

I don't think people will be upset in the long term.

My guess is that either Entrenchment didn't sell as well as they had hoped and/or that producing Entrenchment took much more time and effor than they had anticipated to the point where it was no longer worthwhile.  Also, keep in mind that if a third expansion were released it probably wouldn't be ready until three years after the release of the original game--and who's going to still be playing the game at that point?  Who would buy an expansion for a three year old game?

I'm hoping that instead they have many ides for a Sins-2 and that they'll get to work on a Sins-2 (and not screw it up like most sequels).

They did announce a while ago that they were cancelling the third micro-expansion. But new full-blown expansions are still up in the air! And the all-popular Sins 2.

The key word was mirco. They said this was the last "mirco" expansion.

At this point, it remains uncertain whether after this they'll be working on a full-sized expansion, a sequal, or an entirely new title.  There was never any promise of three micro-expansions, I never saw the developer post from which fans got the idea from.  In any case, it's fairly clear that diplomacy is the last micro-expansion and something bigger is coming next.

What are the chances of Ironclad actually releasing a full-blown expansion? 

If they make a SINs2 it'll just be SINs with better graphics and probably less ships. Anyone remember Dawn of War and Dawn of War 2? In terms of content it was effectively a downgrade from like 9 factions to 4.

oh, I doubt Sins-2 would be Sins with better graphics and fewer ships. IC has already shown that anything related to the Sins IP has to be top-notch.

Remember, Ironclad Studios IS NOT A BIG NAME COMPANY (or at least they weren't when Sins went into development). And they are not EA, Relic, THQ, Valve (god, not valve). Thus, they are a relatively small (and somewhat indie) studio that focuses not on making tons of money with a mediocre title, but making money with a infinity/5-stars game.

then i demand a new sins where its only Icons, but with 20 races and 50+ different ships for each race.

If Sins2 but added just one more faction to a count of 4 and even further improved balance and modability, it would be made of win.  I'm happy they're making games with integrity, creativity, and attention to craftsmanship.

I noticed and bought sins on the strength of the game of the year icon on the box catching my eye while browsing the shelves.  And have not in any way been disappointed yet.

-evoke

IRONCLAD, if its money you guys are concerned about I highly reccommed Relic's approach to their games.

STAND-ALONE expansions. Create another race (probably the race Vasari was running from) and add an additional cap ship for the three original races and an additional frigate then package it all and market it as a BRAND NEW GAME GUYS! 

Why waste 2.5 years of work on the original game plus entrenchment and diplomacy to make SINs 2 when you could just recycle all the good work and CREATE an expansion with a brand new game market potential. Call it "Sinners" or something. 

Relic did this succesfully with Company of Heroes Opposing Fronts and their entire Dawn of War 1 line and they are doing it again with their Dawn of War 2 line with their Chaos rising expansion being stand-alone. 

They still are. Sins was made with 9 people plus Stardock involvement in some areas, and now Ironclad has 11 (but are moving offices so they might hire a couple more).

Ultimately, the third micro-expansion was scrapped due to time. Entrenchment did cost a fair bit more than they were anticipating, but it sold extremely well and return-on-investment was never an issue. It does just come down to time, as Sins is gaining in age and by the time the third expansion would've come out it'd be 3 years old. Not to mention I imagine it would be rather difficult making a third expansion because they really already are pushing the current engine to the brink of its capability.

If the third expansion was going to be something more meaningful than just "throw a bunch more units in", such as a campaign or scripting or what have you, large portions of the engine would need to be re-written which is a ton of work for an old game.

They've already said that Sins isn't over, and whatever that means neither Ironclad nor Stardock are run by big suits who have to answer to shareholders (yay privately owned companies!) and they care about making good games. Whatever they have in store for Sins is not going to be cheapened

So Annatar is basically putting the nail on the coffin of any ideas for a full expansion?

Essentially anything new for SINs if ever would only be a SINs 2.  

You're actually disappointed that it will probably be Sins 2 instead of an expansion coming next? What's wrong with you?

Think of all the wonderful things that can happen in a sequal with a new engine vs. an expansion. 64-bit support, dual-core (or more) support, more modding options, less hardcodes, a campaign, new races, units, etc. They can put waaay more stuff in a sequal.

i don't know why you are so worked up about not having a 3rd expansion when the 2nd hasn't even come out yet.

You got me. I'm not affiliated with Stardock or Ironclad, and the stuff I write is basically gathered from observation. Until they say otherwise, anything's on the table. I certainly am not privvy to their financial details and publishing agreement.

But when the 3 micro expansions were first announced, the timeline had them all out already. It was only supposed to be about a 6-month development for each, and it ended up being a year each. With that, it's fairly logical to assume that they ran out of time and couldn't put off other stuff. :x

I would be in favour of another micro expansion with an additional race + perhaps some AI improvements.

I think that it is the main reason... and to be honest, each of their "micro" expension have add a lot to the game... not always in the gameplay or the visual but in the engine itself... now, the engine run somehow faster that with the original game !!! Modders are a lot of new option... several hardcoded limit was expended ( just hope that they will extend the mesh limit with diplomacy )...

Since, as today, multicore and 64 bits computer are cheap, it seem logical that a sins II need to be created using these features... this for remove the lag due to single core in big battle or the memory problem with huge mod who add new races... due to the needed work, a multicore and 64 bits engine cannot be released like a micro-expension... Ironclad is a business and people working there need to feed their family too... hey, several of their free patch have not only correct problem but add feature too !!!

if they are developing a new engine for sins 2, it should be alot better then this hunk of junk engine. too many issues and problems. However I would also like to say

ADVERTISE YOUR GAME TO PEOPLE!

you could have sold a lot more if you advertise like other games. The only reason I got sins was becuase of blind luck really, One day scooping through the internet for new RTS space games, then BAM! i found sins.

Advertisng To Nerds, And of course, COOL nerds = More Sales

I only found out about SINs due to gamespot. But 90% of gamers are not hard -core gamespot reading nerds and are causal gamers. They guys fall for even crappy games with good advertising. 

Advertise! 

Aside from putting TV spots up, what did you want from them?

When sins came out I saw ad banners for it on most of the major gaming sites, it got rave reviews and had prominent placement in most yerly award shows, and Tyco from Penny Arcade spent a btter part of a week raving about it.  Sure, it didn't have the hype many games do, but it was an indie title.

What I hope for in a Sins-2 is that it be as good as Sins + Entrenchment while being rock-solid for online multiplayer (no minidumps or desyncs) so that by being a new game that is polished upon release, perhaps it will attract large online player counts this time.

I am sorry, I never knew this was an indie game, I thought it was an RTS space game? I must be wrong then. (Sarcasm).

I did not even hear about this game, not one, not in magazines (pc zone and pc gamer, maybe i missed an issue becuase it did get reviewed), not on websites, it was only luck after playing homeworld 2 one day that i wanted to find out any new space RTS games, and I finally foundone 45 minutes later, and that was Sins.

I think with bigger ships, bigger explosions shown in TV Advertisements, will help entice people into this game, then FINALLY THE HAWK CAN COME BACK TO WHOOPING CANDY ASSES!

Boys, do you know how much is the cost of TV advertisements or other type of advertisements ?

Today, it become more easy with Impulse but when sins was released, there was not Impulse... TV advertisements have certainly double the cost of the game... more, before the release, nobody have think that a game like sins will work so good...

By the way, all money used on advertisements need to be return in one way or the other... do you really wish to pay your game or expension pack at a double ofthe actual price ?

Sins have become a well know game by his own merit, not by some advert... he was in the top chart at the end of the first year... sins is in some game top 50 for the decade ( 2000-2010 )... console game being included in these top 50 !!!

Merit is the real advertisememnts of these game, not some high end TV spot who show a hyperrealist video who have nothing to do with the real quality of the game...

By the way, if you are in the 4X style of game, simply bookmark the following page :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:4X_video_games ... point is : learn to use internet for find what you wish...

that made me smile happily. even tho its just a coincedence (for those of u who know the connection)