Just a sec there Radie, from what I understand both Mass Effect and Spore were going to have that 10-day activation thing and the public response was so violently opposed that they almost immediately (2-3 days later) said they had decided against it after all. So there's your "customer respect" right there, and all the more reason to go out and buy it.

I, personally, wouldn't be surprised. I want to simply be able to put the disk in the drive, install it, put the CD safely away, and sit back and enjoy the game. I don't want to have to go through online registration just to play the single player or LAN portions of the game, or search for the CDs to every game that I own (and I have a lot of them) to sit down and have fun (not to mention that all of my CDs are unfortunatly starting to get those small, annoying scratches on them).

While I can, at least for now, get over the fact that most games require the CD, I flat out refuse to buy anything that I have to activate online even to play just the single player portion of it, uses starforce, or has other aggrivating copy protection. I just don't play them. If I weren't so concerned with doing the right thing and not becoming one of those whose pirating has created this copy protection mess in the first place, I could see illegally downloading games just because it would probably be a cracked copy which would likely address all of the problems listed above. Sad when pirates provide what could be better, hassle-free service than game companies do.

I'm shocked reading all these posts defending piracy. Stealing is wrong, no matter what the circumstances. It's not like this is a new concept either. Hammurabi's Code or Ten Commandments anyone?

This is not an argument for, or against piracy; it's just the bottom line for what's being done:

Regarding the argument of pirating a new game to "try before you buy". You're still stealing $50-$60 for a full product, whether or not you intended to buy it later.

Although it is unfortunate if a new game does not have a demo, or if you don't have a friend who has it (so you can try it), that is still not an excuse. (In case you dont trust big game site reviews) With the internet, you have access to hundreds of personal user reviews, many websites or forums for the game in question, non-doctored gameplay videos posted by players on sites such as youtube, etc. There are enough resources out there to figure out if a game is for you.

And as for pirating because you think the publishers are evil bastards; that only encourges bright ideas such as the 10-day license verification and the like.

Now I will say that there are some situations where I am slightly inclined to pirate. Those situations always involve games that are no longer for sale ( or even being printed for that matter). Two examples would be Wing Commander: The Kilrathi Saga, and Daggerfall. Neither game is in print (in the case of Daggerfall, probably never will be again) and I really have only two ways of getting my hands on them, which is either download pirate copies or pay some seller on ebay/amazon ludicrous prices for a copy. In situations like that I sort of lean toward the side of piracey but... it's still stealing...

I'm not even gonna get into the religious aspect of what you just said but think about this. In a world where IP(intellectual property) becomes increasingly pointless what are the smart people doing?

They are listening to the masses that pirate music/software/games whatever your flavor, (oh and honestly some of the "holier than thou" attitudes about piracy in this thread lead me to believe that most of you just like to pretend you pay for everything)
companies and bands alike are starting to realize that treating the customer as if he is a pirate right off the bat as if he has already pirated the CD/DVD he just bought is at best shady business practice and at worst one of the leading causes of the huge surge in piracy.

From open source Applications, to NIN making an entire album free to download and you may donate if you like it, to Rifftrax an offshoot of Mystery Science Theater 3000 says on their Donate page.
"The point is, we realize there are times when you may find yourself in possession of a RiffTrax that you didn’t pay for (hey, it’s the internet – it happens.) All we ask is that you do the right thing so that we can keep bringing you quality riffing for years to come.

You see this attitude where it treats you like a human being rather than a wallet leads Rifftrax and NIN to make tons of money through donations alone. I have downloaded pirated Rifftrax and will admit it because unlike some of the people in this thread I try to be truthful to myself. And you know what because I love Rifftrax so much I've donated more money to them than is worth if I bought them outright, on their principles alone.

So what I'm trying to say the world changes and it is easier and easier to get access to IP and fast with BitTorrent. The smart people instead of scold people for being pirates instead say hey it's cool we understand, it's the internet it's a crazy place but if you like our IP please helps to make more by donating.

I'll give far more money to people like this than I will to companies with the sole goal of increasing the bottom line by shoveling crap wrapped in a pretty package down our throats and treating us like pirates for buying it.

I must say I'm fed up with some of the anti-piracy measures taken. Web connection required to play a single-player game offline, e.g. - Portal, anyone? I played that game for one day, finished the main mode, but never got around to the bonuses. And I won't. Because there's no way I'm letting Steam stay on my harddrive. I have better things to take up my disk space. So I uninstalled them both on the same day, and I'm taking it back to GameStop. Getting some of my money back, due to their buyback policy ("We buy your used games!"). That means I end up paying less for it. Due to antipiracy. I've had games straight-up refuse to run. Legitimately bought copies! Because the piracy tests were defective. That is also theft. The companies' piracy policies essentially steal money from the customers, and here, at least, that is a legal offense much graver than software piracy.

I admit, I have downloaded illegal copies of games for myself. I once downloaded Born of Blood from a web page. I also once downloaded Space Rangers II. In the last case, I got a message saying "This is a pirated copy, and will only run for 1 hour". I was overjoyed! That was exactly what I wanted. Turned out the combat was too fiddly, and so I uninstalled it at the 15-minute mark. A simple demo would have been preferable, but since that's what I got anyway and it would have taken a lot less time. And rest assured, had the game been good enough to pay for, I'd have uninstalled it, ordered it online, and reinstalled it - because I'd want a 'clean' install. As for Born of Blood, it met my standards. It got uninstalled after ~1 hour, and I ordered it online. The same pattern repeats for every single instance of piracy in my life, because sitting on a pirated copy of anything makes me feel dirty.

Ergo, in my case, universal availability of demos would have completely stymied my involvement in piracy (Which ended when I realized the speed of my computer was going down in part because of it). Worth thinking about for game developers, maybe? At least, implementing SR2's method of anti-piracy instead of Starforce or Steam's might encourage more gamers to go from pirating any specific title to buying it. As it happens, I have bought more games due to the demo being good than I have ever downloaded games, legit or otherwise.

As for piracy being theft, the company loses nothing if the player wouldn't have bought the game in any case. Heck, I'm sure there are instances when a would-be pirate downloads a game, goes "Hey! this is good.", and then goes out and buys it. Is it wrong to download illegal copies of software? Indubitably. If for no other reason, then because innocent piracy begets malignant piracy - the type that does affect developer incomes.
In the end, malware was only part of the reason why I pirated games. Most of it was my conscience. I'm quite simply too damn responsible and civic-minded to make a good lawbreaker.

What is my point? Well, it may not be obvious, but there are two:
1) @ devs - make your games available for a free try-out before the purchase, and don't use DRMware that restricts your customers right and/or insult their honor.
2) @ gamers - don't pirate. Abstain from buying just that game instead, and support more liberal companied like SD.

[/confessions of an ex-small-time-pirate]

Postscript: You can watch movies, read books and listen to music for free legally (TV, the library and the radio). Why shouldn't that apply to games?

at "tommyth3cat"

While I do agree somewhat with the mentality of "if you treat me like a pirate, I might as well act like a pirate" reasoning you mentioned, I don't think that's entirely the problem, at least in the case of video gaming/software.

Concerning the NiN and Rifftrax examples, I think that's a great idea for them. I also agree that I'd rather fork over money to someone who treats me with a bit of humanity, as opposed to the opposite. Yet, those aren't very relavent examples. You're talking $10-$20 there as opposed to the $50-$60 for a game. The video gaming hobby is expensive, and there's alot of people who'd rather not pay those sort of prices but still want the games.

While I think it's great that we have some "noble pirates" out there are buying SOASE for the sole reason of how Stardock/Ironclad is handling the copy protection issue, but I really think that's only a small percentage. The majority of pirates, are still going to pirate.

Now, if developers across the board start "playing nice" and weakening the current trend of copy protection, I would imagine that piracy would increase (seeing as how it would be easier to acquire the game). Furthermore, piracy get a little more serious when you start looking into bigger products ie: Photoshop CS2/CS3, MS Office products, 3dsMax, Maya, etc... all easily obtainable torrents. With those, you're not working with chump change, the mentioned products all being rather expensive.

Yes it sucks that alot of big companies have to treat everyone like a potential pirate, but how else are they going to protect their investments?

For one, I will admit I have done things I am not proud of, including stealing. But that doesn't make it right. The only reasons I put up those two codes is because they are so old. I meant nothing religious about them. Loserbob is right too about copy protection though, the dreamcast was killed mainly by piracy. I have a lot of popular games that would be subject to atleast twice the piracy if they didn't have the security measures on them. If you read what Stardock is saying, you'll see that they aren't worried about piracy because of the market they are in. How they came to that conclusion I don't know, but they are only doing it for this market.

And again, stealing is wrong, no matter what. I am not better than anyone else and admitting that doesn't make me any better either.

As I said in my previous post, I don't support piracy, and I also don't engage in it. I also recognize the hard work that companies put into their products. My problem comes when copy protection becomes a frustrating process just to use the software that I legally purchased. Take my copy of MS Works Suite. I bought it because I wanted MS Word, which my computer didn't come with. Recently, I upgraded my computer and had to reinstall it. All well and good, but now I can't activate it because it has "already been registered to another computer", which means that I can only use the program so many times before it wont open anymore.

Looking through the manual, the box, etc., I found that there was no customer service number listed to call. I have to try and call the number I eventually found online for the third time tomorrow because the last two times I called customer service today it was busy and, while I waited for them to answer, I was disconnected. I know that if I didn't care that it was wrong, I could probably find a pirated/cracked copy of Word (probably even a newer version than the one I have) that I could install and uninstall as many times as I liked without having to go through this.

I legally purchased this software, and I do NOT like the fact that I'm paying the price for the actions of a group of dishonest individuals by having to go through this.

Interesting how people continue to ask this question even inside a forum of a best-selling game that does not do these things. Why, its almost as if some people cannot learn the answers to their own questions because they are impervious to answers that they do not want to hear.