I Have Decided To Do The Right Thing... Now I Need Some Answers

Sorry about such a short post, my manager came in and made us go to a stupid 2 1/2 hour meeting. Anyway here are some details & questions...

Both my roomate and myself are HUGE RTS fans. We fell in love with SoaSE fromt he demo and we started looking for a pirated copy. In doing so, we found a lot of material about the lack of copyright protection on the game and along with some forum posts as well as an article in Game Informer, we decide to support the developers of this great game. We are both sick of the tired line that pirating hurts those who make the games. Truth is, those people dont care about us, just our cash. Screw them. Stardock is one of the very few companies that seem to really be in touch with its user base and certainly one of the ONLY ones that actually respects them. So giving credit where it's due (and only where it's due), we are going to purchase a legal copy.

My roommate is running Windows Vista while I am running XP SP2.
Both systems more then meet requirements.
Both systems are hooked up to a network.

We need to know if we can purchase one copy and install it on both machines.
Would we be able to get any updates and software with only one copy?

Any other info would be extremely helpful.

Keep it up, Stardock. Hopefully you guys will be the leading force in changing how business is handled for PC games.

That's just fine. We specifically allow two seats per license for LAN play. Most people end up buying their own copy after playing someone else's at a LAN party anyway, it seems

yes, it will work!
the great thing about sins is it's designed to work over a home network without extra copies.
when you install it into your computer it completely installs making the cd useless.
just install it on up to 5 computers and you stay within the user agreement. updates will be available for both computers but to play online you will need to buy a second copy so that you can sign into stardock central.

hope this helps.

sorry for the double post, stupid edit button no longer exists.
i guess its only 2 computers though according to kryo, pretty sure it says something about 5 in there somewhere.
also, not stardock central but ironclad online. two very different but both very helpful programs.

To play over ICO you need your own copy to register. This can't be helped.

I always buy my games legitmately just because I want to make sure the PC game market stays alive.

By the way, you're not "rewarding" StarDock and IronClad because their game is the only one you're not pirating. You're just not stealing from them.

Sorry, but I thought that deserved saying.

-- Retro

Games are different than music CD's. You can more fully support an artist by going to their concerts and buying shirts than buying their CD's. One of my major's in college was music industry. In spending many months studying and purchasing independent books on record contracts I determined that artists get ripped off huge by these companies whatever their "claim" about the band being a gamble is. This is why you see armies of corporation spokesmen crying aloud and not very many artists. I'm an avid concert goer. At least 1k/year on tickets.

Video games on the other hand, are not at that point. Maybe they're getting there the way EA has been buying up companies, but a team venture funded and likely created/initiated by a studio means a different set of rules concerning ownership.
The closest examples I have to music is Ringo Star or the Sex Pistols.

So in it's current state, I have not ever played a cracked game, nor do I plan on doing so. On one hand of course this has left me missing many great games since they didn't have demos....but meh. Whatever the game, it's still just a game.

Stardock didn't deserve a reward for you to play a game you enjoyed a free demo of. They deserve a just transaction for something you're obviously enjoying.

Exactly. How bloody condescending could you be?

all my games are ligitiment its music which i pirat and the cds only make a lot of money for the coporation its gigs which make the money for bands as far as i can tell. and the music is basicly allready paid for in the game the $5 or what ever extra you pay for the soundtrack is mostly just the CD and Burning time made to create it along with the ink on the top. you know a company cares when they do sound tracks which dont cost an arm and a leg eg. stardock and ncsoft.

meh i see both point of views of the devolpers and the people pirating. Some companies do deserve to have legit copies brought, Bethedsa for example when they released oblivion, but it is really annoying when you buy a game to have something idiotic like starforce come with it. i never really get pirated games (and always buy shareware cuz 90% of the time its a smaller company making it :P) but yes i do see his point.

Good catch the retroboy. Some of the posts appear to agree with Radio420's justification for stealing.
Carbon16 I can not figure out if your post is refering to Radio420 being condenscending or the retroboy. I did not read anything condenscending in the retroboy's post, it is a fact that radio420 is stealing. Taking someone's property without paying for it easily meets the definition of stealing.

He knows it is wrong which is why he states his justification and then seeks applause when he does the right thing by paying for someone elses property. He appears to have a conscience and was brought up knowing better as it bothers him that he steals. This is a good thing.

When I got out of college and started my first very mediocre job I stole office supplies. Probably about $50 worth looking back at it. I justified it with similar excuses like Radio420. I never could feel good about it and years later I still remember I stole these items. Justifying that he only steals property from people who really do not care about him would allow him to steal from most everyone and if this standard was applied to him he would have nothing, nor would anyone else.

He is also stealing from his employer. Who expects him to attend meetings while on the clock instead of posting on forums. The company that is paying him the money to pay his rent, electricity, internet, and games. I assume they don't really care about him either so stealing from them is okay to.

I believe he will value the game he paid for and have must more enjoyment from it instead of ones he stole. People value what they invest in. The irony is is that he is infact only rewarding himself.

What I meant was that saying "well NOWWWWWWWWWW I DECIDED TO BE THE HARBINGER OF JUSTICE AND REEEWAAAAAARD YOU" is like punching someone in the face and saying "I'LL REWARD YOU BY NOT DOING THAT AGAIN LOL". It's condescending toward the developers to the extreme and the OP should get off his high horse.

AMEN TO THAT!

I appreciate that though I want to plug for three. Of all the friends I have that play games, especially those with teenage children, there are at least 3 computers in the house. I personally still chafe at having to buy multiple copies of a game per household but if it's needed from a business perspective I understand. However it breaks out, I'm still happy Stardock works with its customers instead of treating us all like criminals.

For the anti-pirating moralists, I see it as a two way street. While certainly there are some hardcore thieves, the industry is not exactly innocent in the loss of respect that helps fuel western piracy. I actually tend to view games more on the restaurant model as opposed to retail. In a restaurant, typically if the food sucks I don't pay. I'm not talking about just not liking it, I'm talking it was sent out burnt and looks like someone just threw the food on the plate. There isn't a hardcore gamer today that hasn't played at least one game that can fit that description. Ever been to a fancy restaurant and have the food look like art but taste like crap? Again, there isn't a gamer out who hasn't played one like that. How should customers feel when the people they rely on for fun treat them like ATM's and just throw out crap product after crap product just to get cash? Games should be treated like decent quality chefs treat food-- if it's not any good, don't send it out because all it does is piss off the customer and make them never want to return.

Someone else already made the anti piracy software argument but still, I'm a paying customer, why am I the one jumping through all your hoops just so you can not catch the crooks? Why are you treating your customers like criminals instead of like valued assets and even friends? Why aren't more companies like Stardock and allowing me to at least demo a game, or making it easier for me to cope with losses like Stardock central? I found that when I bought Galactic Civ 2 and that feature just made me a loyal Stardock supporter. I saw an interview over Sins that made the comment about making games people don't pirate but it misses the mark to me. Stardock provides a service that simply can't be pirated and makes the customer actually feel like a person, not a paycheck.

The gaming market is saturated with these mistakes from Heroes of M&M (post Shadow of Death) to Crysis. It erodes customer confidence and respect and if you don't have that, no security in the world is going to make you a profit because you won't have any customers. Pirates aren't customers, I am, serve me not them.

??

I do that all the time, it gives me pleasure. Except I don't say the gay "lol" bit.

Get over it he expressed his opinion, and as soon as his question was answered, he didn't even return to this forum, and he didn't care what you fags said. Get lives. Stop patrolling these forums in order to compensate for your lack of girlfriend.

This game is the first I bought in years, and with ICO's problems, and the balance issues in the game that pertain to multiplayer, I'm starting to regret my decision... I do miss the frequent updates on the homepage about stuff actually happening with the game, but... as with most games, it dies off...

And you have to wait for a sequel...

Hi, thebadchopper. Can you please avoid the flaming? There is no call for personal insults like "Stop patrolling these forums in order to compensate for your lack of girlfriend." - it makes neither yourself nor the boards look good.

Thanks.

-- Retro

Im not really too sure about this. before going to the restuarant you are given samples of FOOD from the menu for free to taste without paying. Its called a Demo. If theres a restuarant that continues to cook the same crap over and over againg ,one can read a restuarant guide beforehand that tells him the restuarant sucks , its called a game magazine review.

You seriously trust game magazine reviews? Have you not seen all the scandals and shady advertising issues that have been in existence almost as long as the reviewers themselves? Over 20 years of actually paying attention( I was reading slightly longer) I've seen some true turds get 9/10 and had it come down to pressured reviewers, hoodwinked reviewers and the company's bottom line. The only thing I really trust at this point is my own play experience.

Just like all restaurants don't offer samples, not all game companies offer demos and many that do offer the demo as part of a game magazine's promotions. Also, the difference between a demo and a sample is that many games get crappy as you play through and find weaknesses, a proper sample gives you the full experience, if only just a bite. Where a sample of the clam chowder will almost certainly tell me if it will be good or bad, a game demo doesn't tell me if I'm going to be playing through the same uninspired,repetitive levels/gameplay that only have how pretty it is as a selling point. It's like ordering a 7 course meal, getting a great appetizer as a teaser and having the rest of the courses be mediocre if not total garbage.

Side note: Even taste tests don't fully work. New Coke killed in taste tests but when people had to drink a whole can they said it sucked.Just more proof that the best way to have something be better is to test the whole thing and not put out "sweeter" crap.

So then we should steal food from the restaurant just because they might not be giving us an honest sample?

YES! (best idea ever)

That's pretty much what's happening. You get tired of being ripped off for $50 here, $50 there for well polished turds.Why should the company be the only one to benefit from robbery? Just because it's legal doesn't make it right. I've lost more money than I care to discuss on products that made better coasters than games. That people think they deserve to get paid for putting out garbage turns the whole point of the Atari rebellion on its head.

Really though, the fact this thread exists is proof enough that putting out a quality product can bring in customers better than copy protection.

Even if games were perfect. I mean every game you buy turns out to be something like Zelda64 in presentation ,there will still be PIRATES because pirates are cheapskates. So it doesnt matter if developers make the effort to role out the red carpet and serve the best food , because it wont stop pirates from pirating because the food still costs $50.

A simple example...

Galactic Civ 2 , great game, excellent presentation, support , runs smoothly , bug free , NO DRM , respectable developer , great value for money...

but theres still torrents out for it.

Totally agree with your last comment - that's a no-brainer - but that is still no excuse for stealing.

PC gaming is one of the retail areas where "caveat emptor" (buyer beware) does not apply because there's such an easy way to just steal it rather than provide proper payment to the people that are trying to entertain you. Yes, sometimes the result is a less-than-stellar gaming experience and sometimes it just sucks for everyone. But there's no excuse for stealing something that is clearly known to be a good title, like Crysis or Bioshock. If you've gotten ten or more hours of enjoyment out of a game and you haven't paid for it or someone else hasn't paid for it for you, you've stolen that game exactly as if you walked into a retail store and put it under your jacket and walked out.

That being said, I absolutely applaud StarDock's and IronClad's approach to piracy. But I get very tired of flimsy rationalizations like "I pirated it because I don't like the software protection they use." or "I played it for 50 hours and got tired of it so didn't pay for it."

-- Retro

Yeah true, but thieves aren't going to buy anyway. Heck, most thieves don't even actually play the game once they jack it and by play I mean even think of it after the first day or so; they're too busy stealing ever more product. Disaffected customers however, who are making up more and more of the piracy stats, can be brought back by seeing their money/time actually be well spent. That's how it happened in the 80's when gaming crashed and that's what's happening in the music industry now. When you generate customer respect for the product (in the Western world at least) they don't want to steal it. Even those that do tend to come back and pay for it. The danger now that didn't exist for gaming in the 80's and to some extent the music industry in the late 90's is that widespread high speed internet is going to make it a pain to ween those customers off pirating but then, that's the industry's fault for abusing the customer's confidence in the first place. Now they have to spend those ill gotten gains trying to get it back.

Crysis was mediocre, just like the oft cited Titan Quest;same old game, just prettier. When you put out mediocre product expecting it to sell millions just off looks( especially when most systems can't run it) make sure you have a mirror handy when you look who to blame.Pirates are bad but you sucking is much worse.

Proof, please. The only actual times I've ever seen on this are pirates who say they're disaffected as an excuse.

-- Retro