The Catholic church is not a Christian church. It lost it's way over a 1,000 years ago

Iran has been on our s##t list sence 1979

Which is why I found it odd that you're attacking Islam. its not the religion, its the culture thats the problem.

I don't exactly see the predominantly Christian nations holding witch trials anymore, even though Wicca has gained major strides in numbers. (Wiccans are self-admitted witches )

Clearly you don't think about what you type before you do so... Me saying the Middle East needs to change = Keep them fighting amongst themselves how?


It doesn't...




Anymore? when was it asking the right questions?


The media as it exists today is dying. It is getting replaced by a more diversified and factured system which has positives and negatives. The positive is that it will be impossible to blacklist anything. Any information can get distributed very quickly. The bad part is that stupid and or crazy people will be able to find each other like never before. I'm talking about people that believe the world is flat, hollow with dinosaurs living on the inside, think aliens are controlling people's minds and thus wear tin foil over their heads... etc...

there's more to it then that. but those will be the two biggest effects... oh and it's going to become very hard to make money at it unless you do so through web ads...



as to 2000 degrees not melting steal... it was enough to weaken the metal... it doesn't need to melt it completely... And furthermore, remember it took awhile for the buildings to fall down.

let me first say that both Ron and mjl are terribly off mark

the violence in the Islamic world has nothing to do with religion and/or culture, it has to do with simple culture clashes that westernized-Islamic mid-income men are dealing with, they want a life of importance (like old jihads) which cannot be provided in a westernized world.

it has NOTHING to do with culture or religion.

again, this is something a normal fire would not do this indicates the flame burned with GREAT INTENSITY

and either way the central shaft probably acted as an air duct, sucking up air from teh lower levels (eyewitness accounts second this theory)

so why are you bothering with the steel core? since the mesh has nothing to do with it.

classic conspiracy theorist ploy

there is plenty of evidence for my side, as for the "engineering and aeronautics (what are they here for again) on both sides"

there are PLENTY more on mine, I've watched more than enough documentaries and read more than enough articles to back that up.

Perhaps this will clarify it a little I know that on a forum it is difficult to properly express something in the short blurbs we have.

If I saw a child wearing a Nazi uniform I would not just shoot him, I would grab him, remove him from the environment he was in, take the leaders who put him in that Nazi uniform, SHOOT THEM; I would then remove the uniform from him, explain to him what it really represents and then destroy the uniform.

TRANSLATION: I see a civilization wearing a Nazi uniform (Islam), you invade it, remove the environment (the Islamic Government), track down the leaders (The Imams) SHOOT THEM, remove the uniform (The Quran) and destroy the uniform (the symbols of Islam).

Now what will happen is a new culture will rise up where the old one was destroyed, (Just like Germany and Japan)

Would many still follow Islam after that? Yes
Do you allow it? Yes, the numbers are manageable now, like dealing with the KKK.
As generations pass it will begin to fade, a new and better civilization will have taken root.

Islam and the rest of the world have been at war on and off for a 1,000 years. Islam tried to destroy Christianity more than once (I think 9 times). It is time for this to stop, if Islam as a force is destroyed once and for all then we will not have to worry about it happening again. Islam is not just a religion, it is a political force, it is a form of government as well as a religion. So when religious nuts of other faiths go off the deep end it is "persons not governments" going goofy. In the case of Islam it is entire counties going goofy.
Hope this helps you understand what I am saying.

And where back to square one again. Oh i have an idea! Why not support some faction so they can take power in Iraq and make a stand-off against the oh so evil Iran? Maybe a Saddam II?

80.000 people have died in Iraq so far, that's starting to get dangerously close to the mass murders of Saddam (excluding the Iran-Iraq war). And he had 50 years to kill of the people in Iraq, with the blessing of USA and Europe most of the time.

And mjl1817 should be banned from this forum for his blatant racist ideas.

LOL you americans realy like guns. Guns are nice if you have the right mind to use it. Thank god in my country,guns are forbiden, if not probably ill be death and 90% of the population too.

well thats cause were better than you and can handle those big toys of ours   

YES RON, I AM JUST KIDDING WITH HIM ABOUT THIS ONE!!!!

The smiley clued me in, even early in the morning when I only just got out of bed.

Hating Nazis should get someone banned? Hating those who fly planes into buldings should get someone banned? Hating mass murderers who would distroy the world should get someone banned? so tell me Mr Hitler lover, how is "hating" war mongering, child murdering, fasist madmen racist?

Do you avocate strapping bombs onto 5 year old children? Do you find that acceptable? Do you feel that it is acceptable for a government to advocate doing it? do you find it acceptable that an ideoligy that promotes murdering people who are different and who refuse to bow down to them as acceptable? What is racist about fighting evil?

Here have a nice fresh made cup of coffee, if you would like I will toast you a bagel.

They where not in any way influenced by the Nazi party. The reason why they collaborated with the Nazis was because they got help from them fighting for the liberation of their nations from Britain. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The same reasons the USA and some European (mainly Britain and France) supported Saddam and countless other dictators. Modern Islamic terrorist groups didn't exist as such before the soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

And Modern Islam and fanatic terrorist are two completely different things.

And 300.000 people dancing? Yeah right.
To quote Bassam Eid Head of Palestinian Human Rights Monitoring Group, based in Arab East Jerusalem "It was just a few who danced. It was frustration with the US and the situation that the Palestinian people are living under and the huge support for Israel from the US. I can imagine that some people were happy. But later on, we all felt affected. I do not think you will get any person who will speak on behalf of September 11. Many have relatives in the US and know that, as Arabs, they have been suppressed since September 11."



To say that a Muslim = terrorist is racist to me.



The enemy is Christiandom! It is an old form of Fascism, KILL EVERYONE WHO REFUSES TO THINK LIKE ME AND DO AS I SAY! Kill everyone who is not like us! I have met many Christians in my life (over 400) and with the exception of only a small few they refuse to say that Bush is wrong in what he is doing. (As according to the Bible, not that they agree with what he is doing)

See any similarities?



Again to say that every Arab/Persian/Berber/Assyrian/Kurd and so on = are terrorists and Nazis are racist.



I can't recall one occasion. But i can recall that the ayatollah in Iran did it, and Bin Laden. And a couple of religious fanatics. The Ottoman Empire never did it as far as i know. What i can recall is Christian Europe declaring war on Islam during the crusades. And exterminated or forced the Muslims and Jews to flee from Spain during the Reconquista. And you two quotes down. And Samuel P. Huntington.



Spoken like a true Nazi, or extremist of any kind. Yep lets exterminate them! Does the final solution ring any bell?



One of my best friends is a Muslim. He hasn't tried to destroy me once. Except when we played Risk.

Maybe that's what make me the Mr Hitler lover.



Nope.



Nope.



Nope.



Nope.



Nothing.

Sorry, i meant from this thread. You've posted some good ideas for the game on other threads. Stick to that.

your country doesn't let peasants have guns.


Wait... don't get mad. But that's literally the philosophy that makes people comfortable with their guns being controlled by the government.


Most countries in europe and Asia used to be military dictatorships and the culture still remembers that. The underlying relationship between the government and the people is different then in the United States. Both legally and culturally. Europeans will tolerate a higher degree of government control and power then Americans will. Even with the patriot act and all that other nonsense that's been put upon us lately Americans still have more rights then any other country on earth. You might have many privileges but what separates the two is that one is something THEY let you have... and the Right is something they have no authorization to touch.

Let me put it plainly on the gun issue. I have a right to be dangerous. I have a right to a device that was expressly designed to kill things and do so efficiently.


Are there negative things that come from that? Sure... every freedom held by any people is exploited. People with the freedom of speech use it to spread lies, rumors, and other assorted information based chaos. People with the freedom of religion use it to create cults or make fanatics for use in some political agenda they have. No one appreciates a fair justice system as much as criminals... the right to be defended, the right to refuse to offer evidence against yourself, the right to the benefit of the doubt... etc. So on and so forth...


But the question you have to ask yourself... is are these freedoms worth the chaos and corruption they breed? With handguns and rifles in civilian hands we suffer from higher gun violence... that's just about the only thing that happens because of it that is undesirable. In the scheme of things that isn't so bad. And even then most of the gun violence is caused by gangs peddling drugs. And no, if you ban guns the gangs don't stop using guns. They might use them 'less' but that's mostly because most of their victims won't be armed in the first place. As evidence of this point, police in Florida are getting attacked by drug gangs using AK47s which are banned and not sold to civilians in the US. Where are they coming from? Black market... probably south america. As a result many florida police departments are being issued automatic weapons in the trunks of their cars and being given special training in their use.



You decide whether you want the freedom and whether you're willing to pay for it. Everything has a price. The safest solution is to live in a dictatorship. Freedom requires a willingness to accept some risk.

with your correction of what you meant I will retract the tone of my statement toward you.

Please remember that I am talking about governments, not the people within the country that suffer from the actions of their government. And Just to correct you the Imam of Palistine (not the current one I am talking the 1930-1940's) did spend WWII in Berlin and did bring back Nazis to help him distroy the Jews.

Your anoligy about christianity is inaccurate as the bible states we shold obey the civil govenment of the lands we live in, not take them over and kill those who resist us. In fact other than Islam I do not beleave any religion advocates that.

The enemy is Christiandom! It is an old form of Fascism, KILL EVERYONE WHO REFUSES TO THINK LIKE ME AND DO AS I SAY! Kill everyone who is not like us! I have met many Christians in my life (over 400) and with the exception of only a small few they refuse to say that Bush is wrong in what he is doing. (As according to the Bible, not that they agree with what he is doing)

as a christian you cant get into heaven by killing non beleavers, in Islam you do.

Bush is not a religious leader saying "go murder children and you will live in heaven for it" the Imams are!


Again to say that every Arab/Persian/Berber/Assyrian/Kurd and so on = are terrorists and Nazis are racist.

I never said they were, their governments are, ie Islamic government = Nazi


The enemy of my enemy is my friend. The same reasons the USA and some European (mainly Britain and France) supported Saddam and countless other dictators. Modern Islamic terrorist groups didn't exist as such before the soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Much to our shame you are correct about us supporting dictators, but on the secoungd point you are mistaken.

I will try to find online information to show you this, but I will not put up links that are just spouting off noncence that just sounds like it could back me up. what I will post is facual information that can be verified to show the historical accuracy of my statement. I will have to look for it.

as i said before the short snippits in this forum do not give you a real feel for what I am saying. I am not avocating the slaugter of people I am advocating the distuction of government that would advocate the slaughter.

You asked if the final solution rings a bell? yes very laoud and clear, shall we sit by as we did in the 30's and let them do it again or should we go in and stop them now?

None of my Muslim friends have tried to kill me either, then again neither have the KKK but if they ran the country they just might have me tossed in jail.

Btw, I place the KKK, Nazis and Communist in the same class with the one caviat that the communist dont want to distroy me they just want to own me.

The most important agent of Nazi propaganda was Amin el-Husseini, the Mufti of Jerusalem, and at that time one of the most prominent figures in the Islamic world. His friendship with Heinrich Himmler and his role in the Holocaust are widely known. Less so is an achievement which only today is bearing full fruit: the Mufti was the first to transfer European antisemitism into an Islamic context. At the heart of his efforts lay an attempt to revitalise the hatred of Jews on the basis of Islamic traditions which he cleverly linked with the notion of an “eternal” conspiracy against the faithful. There is a pamphlet entitled “Islam and Judaism” which the Nazis disseminated in several languages. In its foreword the Mufti wrote: “Regrettably, only a few know that the enmity between Islam and Judaism is not of recent vintage.”[7] And, indeed, the anti-Jewish Koranic suras and the above-mentioned hadith about the rock and the tree had lain completely forgotten for centuries. Now these messages of hatred have been brought back to life by continual repetition.

A second ally of the Nazis was the Muslim Brotherhood, which in 1939 received more money from Berlin than any other Egyptian group. These Muslim Brothers were the nucleus of Islamism and have remained at the centre of Islamic antisemitism up to the present time. The Nazis appreciated not only their anti-Jewish campaigns but also their “fierce hostility to Western liberalism”, as Giselher Wirsing, a contemporary, put it.[8]

this is a link to the full artical WWW Link

additonal info
WWW Link


THE MUFTI AND THE FUEHRER extraits
WWW Link


WWW LinkWWW Link

Islam = Nazi. Please locate and show me material stating the inacuracy of this information.

I also think I shoud make it Nazi=Islam as Islam did not borrow from the Nazis the Nazis borrowed from Islam.

Well if you are, please state that. You where saying that "Islam!" Is dangerous and should be exterminated. And what difference is there if one Imam in Palestine got help from the Nazis to fight the brits during the WW II? USA and Britain aided Soviet during WW II. That doesn't make them accomplice in the atrocities that where made there.



Well, look up the fate of the Midianites on the old testament (Book of Judges). God told the Israelites to exterminate them all, men, women and child, except for the virgins, which should be taken.

Or why not read Psalm 137 ? O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us, he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

Or Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done; but on the seventh day there shall be to you a holy day, a Sabbath of solemn rest to Jehovah: whosoever doeth any work therein shall be put to death.
So, as a Christian you should kill all persons working on a Sunday.

My point is, The Koran, like the Bible is full of contradictions. You can pretty much find support for anything if you just focus on the right citation.



According to the Koran you can get to heaven even if you kill, if it's in a war against non Muslims. A lot of the persons in the bible killed and still got to heaven. Where's the difference?



I don't believe any Imam explicitly said that. But there are Imams that says it's right to "kill infidels" mainly Israel soldiers and other occupying forces. And there are Imams endorsing suicide bombings. But is that so difficult to understand? To them it's for the greater good, the same excuse USA uses to justify the 80.000 people killed in Iraq so far. Both is wrong.

And then there's the vast majority of Imams that says it's wrong to kill. But that's not newsworthy so you don't get that on Fox news.



No you didn't. You spoke about Islam and Muslims. There's a huge difference, so please be more specific in the future.
What is an Islamic government? Turkey is ruled by an Islamic party. Are they Nazis? Bosnia is an Islamic country. The staunchest USA ally in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia and they are the most extreme Islamic government. Why support them?

Would you take it well if i said i hated Americans and wanted them gone when i was really talking about the U.S.A foreign policy and their current leaders? Didn't think so.



To compare Nazis to Islamic fundamentalists... It's so weird.



Are you comparing the Muslims with the KKK? Who would throw you in jail, the Muslims or the KKK? I don't get it.
Maybe it's because I'm Swedish and English is not my main language.

Stop arguing about something pointless, Islam isn't about to be exterminated it is the second largest religion in the world with over a billion worshipers.

Now mjl, would you be willing to kill 1 billion people?

Most likly it is a bit of both of us. I am speaking in short terms that do not translate well and with english not being your first language it makes it worse I am sure.

I will try to be more concise with my terms in the future. I hate short post as they leave so much room for misunderstanding and lack of clarification. also my not placing my comments within expanded context tend to make them sound more extreame then they are.
When I speak of Islam = Nazis I am refering to the government structure within the religion. Islam is a form of government as well as a religion. you cannot seperate them and still be a "true" Muslim.

None of the other major religions say you "MUST HAVE THIS FORM OF GOVERNMENT OR ELSE" and as far as I know no forms of government fail due to the "religion" of the populase or ruling classess. Islam is the only one I am aware of where you cannot seperate the religion from the state; in effect Islam "is the State".

There are many muslims who do not adhear to Islamic law as the law of the land, they by deffinition are not good muslims because Islam REQUIRES them to adhear to Islam as the law of the land.

I have no problem with say a monarcist saying you should live in a monarcy. I do have a prolem with him saying "you must die BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO LIVE IN A MONARCY"

I have no problem with someone saying "you should become a muslim" I do have a problem with "you must die unless you become a muslim". an Islamic government by default advocates "you must die unless you become a muslim". ergo Islam is the enemy that forms those governments.


The staunchest USA ally in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia is not our ally, they are as bad as Iran, in fact worse cause atleast the Iranian government is upfront about how they feel about us. They are not two faced on their dealings with the USA. They hate us, they tell us this, they stand by it. I would trust them before I would trust the Saudi's if you know what I mean.

Shame you don't leave near me, we could go to a bar, have a few drinks a argue about this for a few hours...

thats 1.5 billon and yes, I would be willing to kill that many if needed, but it is not needed. We can do to the Islamic countries what we did to Germany and Japan (that is after the war, not during it).

Size means nothing, The Russia is "larger" than the USA and there are more communist in the world than capitalist but we won that war... and very few (comparitivly) people lost their life over it. You do not need to kill all the followers to kill a movement, just the leadership.

First of the Cold War wasnt an actual war, so in the end no one triumphed and I dont think either country is better off.

And by the way you sound like a hypocrit, here you are saying that they shouldnt kill us, while you yourself want to kill them. Killing those 1.5 billion wont solve your problems, theraphy might.

Yes it was a war... the only thing that prevented us from invading each other was nuclear weapons.


We fought the war through proxies and by undermining each other internationally.


The US won the cold war because our coalition was bigger, richer, and more powerful then theirs. Their whole economic world was choked by a deliberate act of the western powers. It takes years and years for this sort of thing to start to show... like holding your breath you're ok for awhile. But eventually it takes it's toll.

That the soviet union collapsed is almost irrelevant to the course of the war by that point. The soviets had already lost. That they collapsed and thus allowed the western powers to add much of their old empire to our coalition only made the reality of the situation that much more obvious.


As to relating the cold war to is issue with terrorism.


They're similar the following way:

Both took/should take about 40 years at least to resolve... or about two generations depending on how long you want to call a generation.

Neither will really be won by direct force of arms.

Slow economic and political pressure will be the most powerful force over time.

wars will be fought over generally worthless bits of land now and then almost as a pissing contest between the two groups simply to demonstrate that you have the balls to play rough.

We will probably lose a few times but our victories should be more meaningful in that societies that embrace freedom will out preform those that embrace tyranny. ie our zones will be worth more then theirs by virtue of not being scum holes.


there's more as well...


The biggest difference between the cold war and this war on terror is that religion is involved... taming that beast will probably be more difficult then disenchanting a bunch of deluded commies.

Killing those 1.5 billion would solve the problem: Islam as a force of evil would no longer have a massive foundation upon which to call. The problem of Nazi-Islam would no longer exist... problem solved!

How is it hypocritical to say I want those who would distroy me & who have attacked me distroyed?

I do openly advocate the distruction of Islam as a force of evil, just as I advocated the distruction of communisim as a force of evil. Just as I (had I been around then) would have advocated the distruction of Nazi Germany as a force of evil.

BTW: I used to try to make people aware of the evil of Islam long before 9/11 in fact my knowage of it gos back to 1979 when Komeni came to power.

hypocrite: noun; a person who professes beliefs and opinions that he or she does not hold in order to conceal his or her real feelings or motives .

still, you're burning a whole city to the ground to get rid of a termite infection on 5th ave by 23rd street.