First it has not failed as we have no king.

So you're just ridiculously wrong there. Furthermore it was also made to protect the individual from mob politics. It has held so far... it does show signs of wear but nothing is perfect under the sun... what is damaged can be repaired.


So long as you're willing to try.

=================================================================

no, you don't understand. They were extremely clear. Their words unlike most legal documents can be understood by just about anyone. That was part of it's greatness.


Read a legal contract however and practically no one but lawyers really will understand it. But such contracts are nice because they repeat the same terms OVER AND OVER AND OVER again changing phrasing using precise legal terms which are NOT linked to the English dictionary so much as special legal dictionaries.


Why do lawyers "NOW" do that... as opposed to in the past? Because in the past for whatever reason there weren't unredeemable little scumbags floating to the surface in the toilet bowl of creation to INTENTIONALLY misinterprete otherwise clear language.


Had the founders written the constitution like laws are written today it would be a 500 page legal document that you'd have to go to law school just to read.


But you won't be able to misinterpret it.


I'd just assume we keep it as it is and then just shoot anyone in the face that goes out of their way to misinterpret it... but if we need to parse it all into legal documents that would break the back of a horse and beyond the understanding of anyone with less then 8 or so years of legal training... then so be it.


I'm just so tired of ignorance and pride being used as an excuse break any rule that gets in their way.

Ron, it was their stated intent Not to define it in exact terms BECAUSE of the culrual shift that they knew was going to occur. They stated clearly that it is a living document, to be revisited by each generation. They also did not expect it to last as long as it has. This is clear in their personnal and public writings.

You say its about changing the middle east. Well tbh who was the crack heads in the DoD and CIA who lead the research before the war. I mean come on... the middle east is so tied up in clans and tribal cultures that you simply just cant inovke democracy from one day to the other. The whole culture down there isnt ready for it, and escpicaly not when its being forced on em. And then the completly missmanaged efford with people like the Paul Bremer guy and Donald Rumsfeld.
And ending what terrorism? there were no terrorists in iraq prior to 2003.
Osama bin laden came out of saudia and its iran who sponsores hizbollah and god knows what else.

I can agree with you on US presidential elections are a joke. US calls itself a democracy but yet they have the most biased media in the world. Watching FOX news and to some extend CNN always crack me up from time to time. And only like half the population vote, or can vote.

Yes there was really no terrorists from the 9-11 attacks, they were from Afganistan and Egypt. I am going to just come out say that I don't think 9-11 was really much of a disaster. 2 things happened, 2 stupid ass buildings that I hate burned down, and 4,000 people died. We have been pointing our fingers at this acting like it's an excuse to force our form of goverment that we love way too much on people in the midddle east. I don't treat 9-11 like a disaster on the magnitude that some people do because with exeption to the firefighters there were no actual heros dying that day, just a bunch of walstreet stock brokers, the reason I fail to care is because just for reference millions of Jews, Arabs, and Africans have been brutaly slaughtered yet they recieve not even a fraction of the attention, they have become mostly the statistics of a body count for something that we apparently don't care about.
The media is biased and I don't think most people here are too stupid to know that there's corruption but you're not going to be able to turn on the TV and ever hear about what the US is doing as a nation that is killing us all. The US is using what it can to make shure the world isn't taken over by China. And if that means that we are going to spend millions(I think it may have been hundreds of millions or something) on an embasy of immense size in Iraq so that our goverment can make it an appendage of the West then you know what, they are. If it means starting the AFRICOM project to take over Nigeria and secure the oil for the US and try and take Africa from China and India well then so be it, Nigeria is probably the most beutiful country in Africa and it is literaly turning into a wasteland, the natives aren't benefiting from their oil we are, what I think is the true terrorism is exactly what the US has done but isn't being told to us on the media.
Oh and don't worry I'm not some really old black guy or an Asian or an Arab, my family is actually from Germany yet What the US has done primarily in the last 8 years has made me loose so much faith that I asociate myself more with the Communists in China. Why? Becuase I'm just trying to pick the least bad, plus if I could vote for a Communist mayor in my town (and I can't) and loose just a couple rights in exchange for him running over that damn Burger king in a tank I'd consider it a bargain

I live 90 miles from ground zero. I went to NY 5 days after the attack and worked in a staging area just outside ground zero. I was also involved in trying to make people aware of the dangers of the terrorist PRIOR TO 9/11.
It is a very big deal, it was a very big disaster and I would be happy if we took down every "Islamic" country on Earth. "Islam" is a danger to both God and Man, It is the faith of the Devil himself and if we have to destroy a billion Muslims to get at the heart of this CRUSADE. So be it! Better a billion of them then one of any of the rest of us.
Bush has proven that he has no clue as to what to do. It is a shame; this whole thing could have had the lid put back on it if only he were competent in dealing with other cultures. That aside, I advocate the destruction of that entire civilization in the Middle East. They (the culture not the people) are inferior to the other cultures of the world and it needs to be eliminated. It advocates our destruction and has tried to destroy us for over a thousand years. Time to end the madness; exterminate them like we did the Nazis in Germany and the communist in Russia.

um...


yeah. I really hope you're kidding.

I agree with Schem, its not Islam that is at fault here. In my opinion Islam has been one of the most benevolent religions in the history of the world. Christianity on the other hand was not.

Hey, Schem I am dling beta 3 online, hope to play a match with you soon

extenuous circumstances have kept me from getting on, I hope to do so soon.

it is a peaceful religion, its the extremists who are the issue


dont judge the barrel by its worst apples.

but the same thing goes for christianity.

mjl if you could respond that would be great because after a few seconds of contemplation I can't actually manage to know if you're joking or not. Sorry I live in the US and some people do think that. One other question, have you ever been to China, Germany, The middle east or any place outside of fungusfoot Kansas?

Again... we're trying to change the middle east. nearly all the countries that boarder Iraq are terrorist sponsor states. Iraq was not though it wasn't making the situation any better either.


Currently Iraq is serving as lightning rod for most of the terrorists. They attack there as opposed to elsewhere. A large part of our intention was to show the people in the middle east what democracy can do for their society.


These things take time... and it's not easy with Iran and several other countries doing everything they can to kill it.


As to the tribes that needs to be broken down. They need to become like the turks... one tribe.


Everyone in the US 18 years or older who isn't a felon can vote... I think about 10 to 30 percent of the eligible population votes.


As to our media, it's less biased then many official sources in europe. I find often that people that make that claim base their judgment on how it differs from their own media assuming that their own media is not biased.

The solution is to take in many different sources. I've never seen any new source that isn't biased in some way. The trick is figuring out that bias and then complimenting it with other sources that don't share that bias.

Oh yes I think we are doing a great job. Democrac, tons of opportunity at the cost of thousands of you people. Get it today!!   



Yes, but see the problem with that is that the Turks dong have a religious schism dating back a few thousand years. The Iraqius on the other hand do, trust me when I say this some of those poeple would rather die then ally, and lookit they are.



Well he is right at one thing, we are hugely biased, plus are media knows how to lie, or how to not say the truth correctly. Now, is it necessarily bad? No, because in todays age with all things blured by everyones opinion you might as well get a few sources not caring who is biased, because in the end the true story should shine through.

Yes I have been outside the USA. And no it is not totally a joke; I am referring to the "culture" of Islam, not the people. People who are Muslims are not my enemy, they are victims of the enemy, and the enemy is Islam itself. Unlike other religions that have been abused by so called followers, Islam flat out states that you should kill no believers and you will go to heaven for killing them. I have known hundreds of people who are Muslims and not one of them have said I am incorrect about killing non believers. The current form of Islam being taught is a direct take from the Imam of Palestine in 1947 who spent WWII as the guest of Hitler in Germany. When he returned to Palestine after the war he brought with him many Nazis to help him kick out the British and when the UN set up Palestine and Israel he was the one who called for the extermination of Israel.

Islam is not now nor has it ever been a "peaceful" religion. It advocates tolerance only until you have enough people to over through the existing civil structure and then you exterminate those who refuse to convert.
It needs to be exterminated the same way we exterminated the European version of Nazism! Take out the supporting governmental structure, destroy its public symbols and disrupt its ability to engage in armed struggle.

I have never been to China but one of my employees is from Shanghai and she shares with me many stories of life back there, both good and bad. Also about 25 years ago a girl I dated, her father was a mid level member of the Communist party. I have also worked with the consulate office of a few different countries over the years assisting with housing for consulate officers and such. I am aware and enjoy the diversity of cultures that I have been exposed to over the course of my life. That is how I am so aware of how inferior the culture of Islam is. Not from ignorance by living in fungusfoot Kansas, but from my expocher to many cultures.

Go read the Quran and learn what it really is all about! after you read the whole thing in context (not just little snippets, I could do that here but it would prove nothing) then try and say it is a faith of peace!

here is the link to start
WWW Link

Oh and just so you know, if I ever caught someon harrasing someone because they were a muslim I would be first in line to kick their butt, even if I knew I would lose. I will not tollorate that from anyone just because they think diffently than I do, people are allowed to be wrong, all I can do is show them what is right and let them take action acordingly, or conversly show me my error so that I can correct mine.

we're not done yet... obviously.



So be it then... the middle east needs to change.



No we're not. Everyone is biased in different ways. Our bias differs from that of other biases which makes us stand out. But that doesn't mean that we're more biased or that others are unbiased. The US has a different culture then europe, a different philosophy, and a different perspective on the world. As such we have different biases. While their biases are all rather similar. The mistake that is made is assuming that because they all more or less agree on many things that those things are true and not in themselves simply shared biases.


I read major news papers from 20 different countries... they're all biased in their own way. The main bias that is the same yet made different by perspective is ego. Most nations have ego... the idea that their country is important or their accomplishments noteworthy... so for example most papers will remark upon one nation or another not giving their country proper respect or noting their various accomplishments. Of course, the country they're saying that about will tend to say the same thing to them... saying that they weren't given proper respect etc...


It's the same bias really but it changes the message depending on who says it. There are other cultural biases as well. Most of our allies are socialists and thus tend to have a socialist perspective. The US is not a socialist country... despite the best efforts of the democrats... and thus that alters our perspective on social and economic matters. There is also a general distrust of government in the US which is not present in most of europe or asia. Thus we have a bias towards bad mouthing government projects or encroachment that other nations and peoples do not.



US media is no more biased then everyone else's media... if anything it's less biased. It's just that it's biases are different from most other people and thus they stand out.

Flight 92



It also explicitly states that other "children of the book" (various translations, and I may be mis-remembering the exact term) are completely off-limits. Radical Islamics just ignore that because it doesn't fit their desires. They twist their religion just as much as Fundamentalist Christians twist theirs.



Well, beware... because I happen to feel the same way about people picking on people just because their Islamic (or black, white, native american, christian jewish mulsim Toaist Buddhist... take your pick, the list goes on). And I seriously cannot believe that you have the religion itself on your hate list. The culture that has spawned around it, sure. The religion, no.

Thank you Mr. President.



You sound like a brainwashed person. The Quaran never, ever, ever states such a thing, Islam has always been a non-violent religion, only now are people bending the meaning of the Jihad to their own violent purposes.

And let me tell you something, Islam respects other beliefs, it coexists with them, it doesnt mind them. While Christianity openly denies other religions and damns the people of those religions to hell.

I am not here to trash talk religions.

What are religions anyways? They are ideologies, and as far as I know ideologies dont kill people.



That was the British ideology, keep 'em fighting, and look at what we have going on now.



Actually we are a litte more biased I would say. But the differance here is that we have so many different large news stations and news papers that even if they are biased it becomes quite clear. While in Europe, there are usually large networks that control most of the media and the bias is therefore prepetual and hard to distinguish.

The thing that really annoys me about media today is that it isnt asking the right questions anymore.

spoken like a true non-christian

yes, Christianity denies all other religions (duh, all religions deny all other religions)

however it does not damn anyone to hell for that, it damns you to hell for not being a nice guy. you might be mixing it with judaism, which denies entrance to heaven if you're a heathen.

and what would that be...

Ok then, so when the Pope said everyone is going to hell who isnt Catholic he was just kidding right?



Oh they ask them now, about 4 years to late in my opinion.

Hm... like why did the World Trade centers collapse like there was a planted bomb inside?

Why was the government planning invasions into Iran before we even invaded Iraq?

What really happened to the Pentagon?

I dontk now the list goes on...

one pope does not a religion make

pope john the second (or something something something) said you would go to hell for masturbating, that view didnt hold very long (for obvious reasons)

F-I-R-E
no bomb.

we dont like them.

a... plane, crashed into it.

Go take a look at such religions as Buddhism. Sure, it doesn't say all other religions are right, but it also doesn't try and cast them down. It accepts them, and calls them worthy. According to what I studied in school, anyway.



Go tell that to my grandparent's church, they sure don't agree with you there. Unless you believe in Jesus (and truly repent for all the rule breaking you've done), you're damned to hell.

Gee, and they wonder why they have to drag me to church even when they're doing specials.

The building was made of steel, and I dont care what the government says I am going with the experts on this one and saying 2,000 degree fires arent about to melt steel.



We did like them then, relations were only about to become strained. I am talking early 2001 here.

And why did Dick Cheney post a report 2 years earlier saying that "To remodernize the military and bring about a second golden age for America something of the magnitude of Pearl Harbor had to happen to the US again.



Barely any plane wreckage and no official video tapes of the crash. Hm... I'm a bit skeptical.

the flames were much hotter (jet fuel, duh) and besides, the steel didnt need to be anywhere near its melting point, it needed to be weakened slightly, just enough so that stress would take over.

then BOOM!

the experts (not the crystal-hat wearing, bunker building, doom proclomater "experts" that you have) no, THE experts say it was fire.

yeah... we didnt like them

you ever pay attention to what their president says/does? just supplying them with stuff doesnt mean we like them.

with no reason,
1) there was plenty of plane wreckage
2) they kept reporters from getting close for obvious reasons.

dont tell me you seriously think that our government murdered 1200 people and dropped several billion dollars in private investment to the ground so they could play with new toys.

Nope, it was 2,000 degrees at the very minimum, and seeing as there is less oxygen at that altitude it would burn at around 2,000. Not to metion that the fire was clearly not burning efficiently, hence the huge clouds of smoke.

And besides, even if the mesh failed the core was made out of reinforce concrete and would have withstood both fires and the stress from the melting mesh.



Really? They cleared the area in what 90 mins? Wow there must of been a lot of plane wreckedge

Oh, yes of course to cover up something



Oh, heavens no, i am not an insane conspiracy theorist. I was just suggesting that there is a lot more to the entire thing. Either that or Cheney has psychic powers...

all that evidence points to a faster, more intense flame TGE, not a smaller one.

except your assumption about "altitude" affecting air density, at 1/4 mile? I dont think so.

the core was a series of solid steel beams, the mesh, failed or otherwise, has nothing to do with it.

you kidding? no reporters would have been allowed in within 90 minutes, and just because you didnt see the wreckage doesnt mean it wasnt tehre

I saw plenty of it on CNN.

then what exactly are you getting at? because all of this IS conspiracy theory junk, with absolutely no basis in fact.

The fire was still burning very inefficiently. The density of air arround the fire would be reduced because the fire would create great suction and burn up air too fast. Therefore not burning efficiently.



Yes, but the government says that the building collapsed because the meshing that supported the floors melted so much it caved in and caused to much stress on the core witch them buckeled downwards.



Wouldnt a not planned terrorist action, a more senseless act of violance inspire more anger in people. Enough to say start a war?

Are you kidding me? There isnt solid proof for either side. There are experts on engineering and aeronautics that support both sides, effectually putting the whole thing in doubt.

I was saying I wold defend the Muslim, not attack him.

The religon is what has spawned the culture... if you do not cut off the snakes head then it will spawn again. Like I said, the muslums are victims of Islam as much as the rest of us.