Simplicity123

Join Date 09/2006

+10

Beta patch impressions

Started trying the game out after a long break since the first alpha. Here's my early impressions on the latest build.

A lot of work has been done to increase the content of the game since the alpha. I LOVE the black holes in that they provide a real sort of terrain to the space. I wouldn't mind more such things (Come on interstellar rifts...)

On my first playthrough, I had a crash on clicking Earth's manage button. First thing I did. Other than that, it's been going okay bug wise. There are a few "missing infos" on planet wealth/manufacturing bonuses.

There's seems to be a huge distinction beween "occasional" planets and "common" planets per star. On "occasional" everything, I explored half of a small galaxy and found ZERO habitable planets other than my two starters. Each star had around 0-1 planets, all uninhabitable. On "common" planets and everything else occasional, each planet had 2-4 planets. This gave me around 7 habitable planets in my initial exploration area. The difference here is way too much for one level of increase.

Resources are difficult to get and completely opaque in terms of what they do. When I spend two constructors to get a resource, it's annoying that it doesn't seem to do anything at all. I've seen some posts talking about them being useful later in the game. I'm not sure why this choice was made. If I want to spend (a LOT) on getting the resource in the early game, there should be some early game benefit.... Not something that shows up 200 turns in. Otherwise, do as CIV and make these resources not even visible until you are close to using them.

With starter settings and medium galaxy, I'm not really sure what the AI is doing. I've explored half the galaxy, founded 8 planets... only really saw one survey ship for one of the two AIs. Other than that... Space seems big and empty. It's nice that GalCiv is flexible with its settings, but you can't expect new players to play your game for 3 hours on the default settings before they realize that there isn't any conflict in space at all. You need to guide people towards some reasonable settings for their first time through.

Shipyards need tooltips indicating how sponsors provide bonuses to the manufacturing. I can gather it's half manufacturing of the planet, but it's uncertain how distance plays a role.

I still wish the economy was more transparent. Income per turn should be displayed, as it is critical in avoiding economic meltdown.

I like the designer and tech tree. I like the shipyards.

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Also, do economic starbases actually work? I don't see any sort of production modifier on my planets from them...

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Tooltip for planetary production/research/wealth are so close and yet so far. They say something like:

+20% ruins

+10% work camp

-----------------------

Total Production 3.5

Those percentages are useless if you don't explain how you compute the base here.

I've been playing the game for years and I always forget the formula.

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After getting War Machine as Drengin, I am unable to get Planetary Invasion. Disabled for the Beta?

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The devs have said in the last live stream, that resources will eventually be used for much more than just ship augments. We are basically just seeing the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 1

Also, do economic starbases actually work?

They do work. Their bonus is applied to the base value directly, instead of shown as a multiplier. No idea why that is the case.

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 2

Those percentages are useless if you don't explain how you compute the base here.

The value for the Raw Manufacturing is no longer shown in the tooltip, for some reason (Research and Wealth still has it though).

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 3

After getting War Machine as Drengin, I am unable to get Planetary Invasion. Disabled for the Beta?

No, you just have to unlock the Age of War first. You have to research 50% of the current tech age, before you can go to the next.

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I've captured 3 enemy planets in my current v.4 game. They are minimally built and the AI had those planets for quite a long time. One had no manufacturing but some other stuff built.

Have another 6 enemy planets in view. They show very poor manufacturing numbers. I'm guessing the AI is brain dead at managing planets.

It appears at least minimally effective at using ships.

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That might make sense if Planetary Invasion were in the Age of War... But it's not (at least for the Drengin)...

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Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 6

That might make sense if Planetary Invasion were in the Age of War... But it's not (at least for the Drengin)...

It is in the Age of War for the Drengin. It's the first tech right after the yellow/golden border dividing the Age of Expansion from the Age of War. At least in my game.

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peregrine23

Join Date 02/2007

+79

The formula for the economy is very simple:

Your raw production is your population + production modifiers. So if you have an economy starbase and no other production modifiers, your production will be your population +10%.

Your raw production in is then multiplied by the percentage you allocate using the production wheel. As Gaunathor noted, you can see your raw production devoted to research or wealth by checking the tool-tip. Your raw production in a certain area is then added to your bonuses in that area, these bonuses can be seen in the tool-tip.

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Quoting perigrine23,

reply 8

The formula for the economy is very simple:

Your raw production is your population + production modifiers. So if you have an economy starbase and no other production modifiers, your production will be your population +10%.

Your raw production in is then multiplied by the percentage you allocate using the production wheel. As Gaunathor noted, you can see your raw production devoted to research or wealth by checking the tool-tip. Your raw production in a certain area is then added to your bonuses in that area, these bonuses can be seen in the tool-tip.

So simple that you described it incorrectly...

By your calculations, starting earth with a population of 10, research division of 33%, and capital bonus of 20% should have research of 4 (10 * .33 * 1.2). It actually has a research of 6.

If you set research to 100%, starting Earth gets 18 research (15 + the 20% capital bonus). I have no idea where the extra five comes from.

You also didn't take into account approval, which I believe is another multiplier on the production.

And then there's the division between social and military spending. Which is ANOTHER multiplier on top of that that divides the spending between the shipyard and the planet. Except that as far as I can tell, it doesn't affect the planetary spending, it only affects the shipyard (which is pretty clearly broken).

The number of sliders/modifiers is just silly, in my opinion, and always has been. But if we're keeping this level of complexity, it should at least be spelled out fully in the tooltip so people have some idea of how to compute it. And if it's too hard to do the tooltip, maybe that's a sign that you should cut back on the complexity.

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Quoting Gaunathor,

reply 7

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 6

That might make sense if Planetary Invasion were in the Age of War... But it's not (at least for the Drengin)...

It is in the Age of War for the Drengin. It's the first tech right after the yellow/golden border dividing the Age of Expansion from the Age of War. At least in my game.

Oh how strange. Now that go back to it, it's past the border. But previously, I swear I saw it before the border.... Otherwise, it would have been clear that I need to get there. Alright then...

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peregrine23

Join Date 02/2007

+79

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 9

So simple that you described it incorrectly...

By your calculations, starting earth with a population of 10, research division of 33%, and capital bonus of 20% should have research of 4 (10 * .33 * 1.2). It actually has a research of 6.

If you set research to 100%, starting Earth gets 18 research (15 + the 20% capital bonus). I have no idea where the extra five comes from.

Actually I didn't.

If you look at my post, I say that raw production is production + production modifiers. 1st turn Earth has 100% approval which is a 50% production bonus. That means that the formula is (10 * 1.5 * .33 * 1.2) which is 5.94 which the game rounds to 6.

Similarly 100% research is (10 * 1.5 * 1.2) which equals 18.

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 9

You also didn't take into account approval, which I believe is another multiplier on the production.

I did, you didn't.

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androshalforc

Join Date 03/2007

+62

Falcon punch

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Quoting androshalforc,

reply 12

Falcon punch

Agreed.

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Quoting perigrine23,

reply 11

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 9

Actually I didn't.

If you look at my post, I say that raw production is production + production modifiers. 1st turn Earth has 100% approval which is a 50% production bonus. That means that the formula is (10 * 1.5 * .33 * 1.2) which is 5.94 which the game rounds to 6.

Similarly 100% research is (10 * 1.5 * 1.2) which equals 18.

Quoting Simplicity123,

reply 9

You also didn't take into account approval, which I believe is another multiplier on the production.

I did, you didn't.

Alright. Then there's a problem in that there's no way to see these production bonuses.

In fact, I think I'd argue that a "production" bonus shouldn't be applied to production, but rather to the three categories (from the UI point of view, mathematically it's obviously equivalent). And displayed in the tool tip there.

A production bonus is too easily confused with a "manufacturing" bonus. The icon is even the same, I believe. Heck "Productive" races get a manufacturing bonus...

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"Resources are difficult to get and completely opaque in terms of what they do. When I spend two constructors to get a resource, it's annoying that it doesn't seem to do anything at all. I've seen some posts talking about them being useful later in the game. I'm not sure why this choice was made. If I want to spend (a LOT) on getting the resource in the early game, there should be some early game benefit.... Not something that shows up 200 turns in. Otherwise, do as CIV and make these resources not even visible until you are close to using them."

I have stated in several posts on the forums that the effort, time and resources required to acquire the resources does not even justify what they do in game.

Currently if you Augment Mass Drivers using the First Durantium augment you get a WHOPPING (.5) range increase at a REDUCTION in over all damage of 15% or was it 20%!!!

Since we have NO idea how range affects combat yet I have tried to see how things work out. Currently I see ZERO value in gathering the resources, they simply are not worth getting to put the augments in your ships when you can simply spend the extra time researching the next tier up of weapons and be FAR better off.

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