abrams_xie

Join Date 03/2013

Some idea about city defenders

Forgive me for my bad english, but I think there's something my need a change about city defenders.

Currently, cities are defended by milltias only, this is where I think it's wrong

Among all three city type, fortress serves mainly for millitary purpose, soldiers are trained here. But why just a few civilians take arms while it's under

attack? Where're the millitary personals, are they just sit back, watching their fort being destroyed while civis take up a losing fight?

And conclaves, they have special buildings for magic purposes, so I think a lot of mages live here. However, none of them appears in city battle, just some farmers take up arms, all mages must flee when enemy at their gate

Towns, which have a largest population in all cities(maybe over 1,000 when it reaches level 5), only 20 of them pick up arms when their home is under seige.

So I think there's something may need a change about this:

Fort: Heavily armed and armored guardsman fight against invaders instead of common townfolks, perhaps some defensive structures,like arrow towers are added to city defence

Conclave: Mages take up the fight along with other city militias, also a magic tower boosts their defence.

Towns: City milltias are fine, but since there's a large population, more of them(double the malltia number or more) fight against attackers.

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this can be modded into the game rather easily. If you would like to create it, I'm sure lots of people would be receptive.

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I think that LH has fixed many balance and gameplay issues, but this is one of the remaining that should be looked into.

City militias might play an important role at the start of the game, making it hard to instantly overrun the AI factions, but later on they are too easily overrun.

-1 or clink doesn't sound too bad a damage for a unit with 50-100 hp.

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I agree with this. There should be some mechanic that accounts for the progress your empire/town has made of time such as:

Cities over a certain size institute a standing city watch which is equipped with your best normal weapon and the 2nd best armor tech you've got, instead of irregulars wielding clubs.

For Conclaves, perhaps archers could be replaced mage units or perhaps supplemented by nerfed (student) mages who join the fray.

For Fortresses, the city watch could incorporate a small number or elite units (a couple of additional levels) equipped with your best normal weapons/armor. Perhaps a L5 Fortress could also get a "General"; like a temporary level X henchman during the battle?

Perhaps there could be buildings for all cities to provide bonus defenders?

City Watch for size 3+ cities: lower unrest by X% and provides 1 extra & better equipped defender.

etc...

Also, I haven't noticed but does the number of individuals in your city defenders increase as your ability to build units with more members increases?

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Quoting Velihopea,

reply 2

I think that LH has fixed many balance and gameplay issues, but this is one of the remaining that should be looked into.

City militias might play an important role at the start of the game, making it hard to instantly overrun the AI factions, but later on they are too easily overrun.

-1 or clink doesn't sound too bad a damage for a unit with 50-100 hp.

Parrotmath's MilitiaArmorMod fixes that.

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On a similar note - when I get ready to besiege a city, why does the battle start inside the city? Every city must have really poor defenses...

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Quoting Velihopea,

reply 2

City militias might play an important role at the start of the game, making it hard to instantly overrun the AI factions, but later on they are too easily overrun.

Which is exactly what Stardock wanted. City militias are supposed to deter early game rushing. By the mid-game everyone should be able to build troops and defend their territory themselves.

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agree with sweatyboatman, militia is really just there for the early game. later on, if you want decent units in a city, build decent units and put them in the city. or put them in an army and defeat the enemy before they even attack your cities.

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Even though I created the armored militia mod, it does not remove the need for stationed troops. It will however take a well advanced city with a well advanced research not to be trounced by a few mire-skaths. It keeps a better feel for these cities and makes them a little more difficult to take.

The creation of unique units for these buildings is completely doable in a mod and I recommend that you design these new city defenders to give more flavor as opposed to making it undefeatable cities with these troops. It would be nice to see rather weak peasant mages try to throw in their help for their city instead of archers. These mages provide like 1-2 fire or ice damage per shot, or something. This would add more flavor to the style of battle that may occur. Or you can have for the fort 1 well trained militia captain type character that uses rusty short swords with a rusty shield. Something to give a little flavor that you are attacking a fort.

The militia are described as a police force, and if your army is away there is going to be nobody defending the city except the peasants. So I do encourage that you create some flavor to the city defenders without making huge sweeping changes to the defense city mechanism. A little flavor for city defense goes a long way when it comes to making and nice experience.

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I suppose. I must admit that I haven't many games or FE or LH under my belt so maybe I haven't gotten far enough along yet in a game yet (or played on "insane/insane"). So far my experience has been that:

I don't need ANY stationed troop in my cities because no one ever gets the chance to attack them.

I don't "seem to" have the income to support any kind of significant military of any size just to station in cities.

It's either been that I'm trouncing everyone soon after the start or I get trounced soon after start. I don't think I've actually seen My own city defenders more than a couple of times.

....third experience:

Or I'm lagging behind for a long while and no one bothers me until I come from behind and start trouncing everyone (that was FE, though).

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I agree with the above. I am currently trying LH on easy, and my only army is the standard sov and champs, the only defenses I have are a few archers on the border cities, and some bandits that have spawned from a recently taken border camp. And they all take a wage total of 30 gildar, and I am not even in mid game, I have 38 cities and just discovering unrest is a thing (YEAH... that was certainly unexpected. )

So unless I rely on wageless troops like elementals, my income would drain rather fast. (Also, related, tax settings that are not 40% or NOTHING? I can survive with a 20% and unrest could get lower. (Yes, just found out about prisons/thrones)).

And it does make sense that each city type defenders are themed, forts HAVE barracks and training camps, surely there is someone there teaching, or some noobish soldiers. Same with conclaves, they are libraries, and I always thought Elemental brainheads were mages or at least tend to have some affinity to it, so while maybe we do not get a champion power mage, maybe a few trainees that are eager to test their new learned spells/defend the city? I would smile at that sight.

I do feel that sieging is lacking love, as already stated, fights start inside the city? What's up with my walls? And about that, even non forts once they get level 4 or 5 could get a wall? Sure, not as tough or big as forts, but having your mighty capital surrounded by fences is kind of... odd. (I recall WoM mighty walls, made cities look awesome)

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Quoting Supergulo,

reply 10

Quick. Update to version 1.2. All your problems go away. (and you'll get new ones.......but the tax system is improved)

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Say hello to the new problems, as annoying as the old ones, but different!

EDIT: Little question here, I am new to this whole Steam game thing, I have LH in the library and currently playing it, but nowhere I see any prompt to update or check for one...

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Quoting Supergulo,

reply 12

Say hello to the new problems, as annoying as the old ones, but different!

EDIT: Little question here, I am new to this whole Steam game thing, I have LH in the library and currently playing it, but nowhere I see any prompt to update or check for one...

It automatically keeps your game up to date, unless you tell it otherwise. If you right click on the Legendary Heroes and click on properties from the context menu, you can set quite a few options for your game.

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It says to keep it updated always...

But I am not getting the update, nor achievements since yesterday.

... Hmm... at the bottom of my library, should that small button read OFFLINE MODE? As in 'click here for it'?

Or I am offline? (Which would explain both problems)

EDIT: Nevermind, I was in fact offline, which I do not even recall telling Steam to do.

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Quoting sweatyboatman,

reply 6

Quoting Velihopea,
reply 2

City militias might play an important role at the start of the game, making it hard to instantly overrun the AI factions, but later on they are too easily overrun.

Which is exactly what Stardock wanted. City militias are supposed to deter early game rushing. By the mid-game everyone should be able to build troops and defend their territory themselves.

Then the Threat rating should reflect this. I've attacked cities with Deadly ratings yet they have two melee and one archer unit that is anything but Deadly. Of coarse the threat rating system in this game is not very good at all.

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In my current game, the best defense (and also employed by the AI -it is getting smarter!-) are strategic spells Tremor, Freeze and Tornado.

You can immobilize enemy armies forever, once they are inside your territory. You just have to make sure your borders are far enough away from your cities. I have never fought a siege on the defending side.

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I've never garrisoned my cities. Armies are for fighting with.

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