Veristek

Join Date 06/2009

Kingdom VS Empire

Why is Empire much stronger? Where's the balance?

Hey all.

Yep, more questions from me. I've been playing Kingdom factions, and I thought I'd check out the Empire factions so I started a game as one. I looked at the tech tree to see what the Empires can build. The Empire stuff seems overpowered compared to Kingdoms.

1. Houses. The Empire houses hold more population, and the 3rd level houses- Slums, is equalivent to TWO Kingdom Villas (same house level). The Slums eat 2 food each, whereas the Villas eat one. However, the Slums take up 1 space, but you'd have to use two city spaces with Kingdom to get the same population.

2. Warfare. Empire have stronger weapons than Kingdom does. Even if I have Master Heavy Plate equipment, Empire has giant Scimitars with 50 attack. The Kingdom's best non-magical weapon is the Claymore, which is 40 attack. Its the same "tech level" as the giant Scimitars. However, it seems like both factions can equip the same armor.

3. Exploration tech's. Empire gets TONS of Exploration buildings that gives boosts to their settlements. Kingdom gets NONE.

4. Influence / Prestige. Empire gets to build Monuments and lots of prestige buildings (multiple monuments for example- I've seen AI Empire cities with like 10 monuments), while Kingdoms can only build Inns, Pubs, Taverns, and the Fortress (only 1 of all 4 per settlement) for bonuses to prestige.

Why is Empire so overpowered like that? What benefits does playing Kingdom have over the Empires? Are there any drawbacks to the Empire factions?

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oddrheia

Join Date 11/2007

Haven't played a lot of empire games, but from working on a tileset for one, I seem to recall that empire has very, very limited metal production outputs compared to kingdom and less guildar production that kingdoms.

I think it kinda balances out in the end... and for me, kingdom has a better technology 'flow' imho... with empire early techs unlock some powerful buildings, but you can't build them untill your city is lvl 4 or 5.

Once again though, not nearly enough empire games under my belt to make a qualified judgement!

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

1. The slum is NOT an upgrade to the house.

For kingdom: hut (25) -> house (40) -> villa (60)

For empire: hovel (30) -> house (50)

then there is a separate improvement called Slum, that takes up FOUR TILES, uses two food and allows 120 people to live in the building

Kingdom has better possibilities here, empire has worse.

2. The great scimitar makes the wearer lose both dodge (-3) and accuracy (-3). In contrast, the claymore makes the user gain accuracy (+6).

I still agree with you, that the great scimitar is overpowered. However, the difference is not as large as you think.

3. Almost everything that empire gets from their exploration tree, kingdom gets from their civ tree. Empire also needs to spend more time researching exploration to unlock the resources that spawn from the tree (6 vs 4)

Empire monument: 0.5 prestige, 2 gold upkeep, 5 turns to build, 10 specialists

Kingdom: Inn, 1 prestige, 2 gold upkeep, 10 turns to build, 10 specialists
Pub, 1.5 prestige, 4 gold upkeep, 15 turns to build, 10 specialists (requires tech)

If a kingdom city has built a pub and an inn, the empire city would need to build 5 monuments to get the same prestige. And they'd lose 4 gold per turn and 30 specialists more to get that, compared to kingdom.

The kingdom is, again, ahead in this category.

If you're looking at something truly unbalanced, look at how quickly empire can get to sages tech, unlocking their version of the library. That alone should be reason to play empire.

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I have only played two games and none as empire but I read a post where someone said empire does not get archers if thats true thats one in the win colloum for kingdom I love archers.

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Empire certainly do get archers. They get them far more easily than Kingdom do as well, since they only have to research one technology (Piercing Weapons) to receive Cedar Longbows instead of working through a tree of archery.

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Thanks for your input on the Empire / Kingdom stuff.

I didn't realize that slums weren't an upgrade from houses. I thought since both factions have 3 kinds of houses and that they upgrade. My mistake.

Point taken about the weapon dodge / accuracy. However, I haven't seen any major impact if I increased dodge / accuracy a couple points with magical artifacts in unit creation. They perform just as well as they do without the +1 or +2 accuracy and dodge.

Didn't realize that the Exploration tree and how Empire bonus buildings are similiar to the Kingdom ones. I guess one game of Empire isn't enough to realize how similiar the buildings are, but different names.

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Heavenfall

Join Date 07/2008

+441

Actually, accuracy and dodge are both very important stats. For example, -9 accuracy (the difference between claymore and great scimitar) can almost cut your chances of hitting the enemy in half. To say that they perform "just as well" with or without those modifiers is simply not true.

Again, I agree that the great scimitar is too strong - it's just not as strong as you make it out to be.

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I haven't really noticed any major differences with a couple points + / - of accuracy in my games up to this point. I'll have to check out the accuracy boosting items and stack all the + accuracy ones and see what happens.

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I usually play Kingdom, and usually dont attack until *late* into the game, giving the AI factions time to consolidate, and it does seem that the remaining AIs by turn 300+ are all Empire (Tarth, Umber, Altar) who have usually swallowed up the Kingdom factions. The Empire factions have an overpowered unit, Sion, which has a tremendous attack which caused me a lot of headache till I found that it was magical and having the magical immunity spell cancelled it out. Still, groups of 12 Elite Sions have HP above 1000+, thank heavens for "Greater grip of Winter", and that their Defence is *always* zero, that you can whittle them down by companies of Archers. But if they get within striking range, the opponent is usually killed by a single blow from a Sion unit group.

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