The Minor Races and implementation

The minor races idea sounds great... just think, you're an evil type, and you decide to kick those underwater freaks into the sea, but then their distant cousins realize that you've rediscovered previously thought lost ancestors and cut off all trade with you..... so many possibilities

Im very glad your expanding the galaxy but im suprised you not letting players do diplomacy with them as it could be great fun trying to influence then to join your cause and maybe help in a war,bribe votes in the united planets etc, a bit like in the 4x game "birth of the federation" system.

To me, the ideal to shoot for (or mine for ideas) would be the diplomatic system in EUII. There are only 8 "players", i.e. major powers, but over 200 independent states are possible (a ratio of about 1 possible independent state per land province, for which you could translate "system" in a space game). Many are 1 province states with no interest in colonization, but they have wars and alliances and otherwise fully interact diplomatically with each other and with the "players".

I agree. Not being able to really interact with minor powers would be a drag. Imagine having a few minors on one of your frontiers; you set up an alliance with them for mutual protection. You can then influence them and get some free protection on another flank.

Maybe have scaled down diplomatic interaction (mutual protection, non-aggression, vassalization/annexation). Remember, more diplomacy usually equals a better experience.

How would you propose interacting with them? I imagine via the foreign policy screen but what user interface would you picture for that?

Something text based perhaps?

Something basic...doesn't have to be as in depth or fancy..

In EU/EU2, you select what country you want to do diplomacy with by clicking it on the map.

Another suggestion - in addition to EU-style diplomacy with minors, another place to mine for ideas is Imperialism. What I'm thinking is adding in some of the functions whereby you could peacefully take over minor countries in that game through economic imperialism, subsidies to their governments, etc... You can do this in EU through diplomatic annexation, but it has a different feel in Imperialism than in EU. I think this would apply for minors who are behind the galactic average in technology.

I'm not that knowledgable about EU. How are minor players different than major ones?

>I'm not that knowledgable about EU. How are minor players different than major ones?

Technically there is not a lot of difference. When you start a scenario you have a choice of up to 8 countries which are by default the ones the scenario designer intended to be playable, but in EU2 you can change the one you pick into any other country in the game. However, the AI script for each country tells it whether it will colonize and if so, where. Under human control, of course, you can colonize with any nation (although your initial policy slider settings and other charactoristics may not give you any colonists, but those can be gradually changed in-game). So, to translate into a space-type game, the difference between a "minor" and an AI-controlled "major" would simply be whether or not they colonized. Implimenting EU's system of "neighbor bonuses" in research would help keep the minors from falling too far behind and being too easy to pick off, as does the EU-style alliance system. You could actually have some minors which colonized just a little to create "pocket empires", and even a system in which if the number of majors got too small a minor might change to the major AI.

Has there been any movement on this? Decisions to change the original implementation?

Those minors could generate more "Issues" in the UP council...

Okay, here's what we're thinking:

1) To keep things simple, the foreign policy screen will continue to only track the 6 major civilizations.

2) Minor races you can contact by clicking on their star system and by their planet where it currently gives the resources and other info it would instead have a "Speak to.." button there where you could interact with them.

3) Speaking to them would bring up the same diplomacy screen as the other players get.

4) Their view of you would be much more influenced by their ethics system. That is, if you're "Evil" and they're "good" they'll never ally with you.

5) Allying with a minor race means they'll attack your enemies but a major race is under no obligation to go to war to defend a minor race it's allied to (since once it's gone, it's gone).

6) Minor races will have 3 levels of interaction which is determined at the start of the game:
a) Isolationist (it will not colonize planets and stars and not send ships outside its own star system)
Internationalist (it will not colonize planets outside its star system but it will send ships within its own sector
c) Interventionalist (it will colonize any star systems in its sector but not outside its sector and will send its star ships as far as it can during times of war).

Which of the 3 will be determined at the start of the game. The major civilizations (ala Drengin, Arcean, etc.) are type D - great powers. They have no limits at all.

Your ability to persaude them will be determined by your diplomacy ability, your trade level with them and your ethics system. Unlike major civilizations, they will NOT be impressed by military might to nearly the same degree since odds are, everyone is powerful enough to squash them.

Brad

What about the "rebels" of the GC-OS/2 days? What happens to planets that rebel when their morale gets too low? (Or is something entirely different planed?) That is, do they fit somewhere within item 6? And can a planet that rebelled from your control then ally with you? If none of the above, do they have rules similar to other minor races, or will they have rules of their own?

Cheers,
Jack

Brad,
sounds good. One questions though. WHY would you not just quash them and take them over? At least in BOFT minors had a single advantage building which you could only have if you peacefully conquered them. Maybe give each minor an advantage which can be gained when in a good relations with them. +10% something. Large enough to make you cinsider not quashing them.

Paul.

Why doesn't the United States just conquer minor countries?

I think these plans sound great for minors sound great.

Jack's issues about rebels are interesting - I assume any planet that rebels simply becomes a class a, b or c?

it would be cool if that was dependant in part upon how you were treating them causing them to rebel!

Brad,
to answer your question

(a) because the american population would not accept an unprovoked war. Especially 50 unprovoked wars. Major social unrest and senate activity.

(b) because many of those minors have american citizens. Could America attack Ireland without civil war? Localised unrest.

(c) because other major powers WILL join the war. Even without a specific defense pack.

(d) complete diplomatic isolation and trade embargo. Economy would be in serious trouble.

If you can implement all of these then that would be very good. The AI needs to realise the consequences though, and also to apply them to you if you try this.

Paul.