Anytime! I hope you can get back to loving the game again...it really is a great game!

Actually, it has not been eliminated. I stil win through culture (called military victory because of the way I set the the conditions for victory). And I do this without fighting a war (and hopefully not defending one either).

I agree with Matthew Downie, I can still win by culture, even on Suicidal. Most of my games involve me beating most of the races culturally before declaring war on the final race to get the extra points for the military win.

Great, so you really great players can easily win. you have proved my point even further. And the fact that you are both "glitching" to a win makes me even sadder. Not that we don't all win by glitches or holes we find in the the AI, but that they choose to remove holes that the less-amazing players use is very disheartening.

elkabong--

Other than finding a way to reload an old version, perhaps you would find some fun in learning more about the game through a succession game?

I am close to starting a new one up with a "training-day" theme. I am by no means the best player around these parts, but there are a few of us who know our way around here that will be a part of the game. If you are not familiar with succession games, take a look here: http://www.galciv.com/forum.asp?BID=GF&id=141922#144515

That link also has links to our other succession games, the first of which was at Painful. The training day game will also be played at painful.

My (our) philosophy for the training day game will be to teach and learn the underlying mechanics of the game--not to follow a prescribed path to victory. That matches well with my normal playstyle, as well. I encourage you to participate (as well as others).

As far as game balance goes--there are quite a few holes in the game. Its concept and SCOPE are about the best I've seen in a 4x game since MOO (1), but there are issues. I do not want to go into all of them here--that is a subject of further discussion.

elkabong, there is nothing wrong with playing on the lower levels. Well, other then the Minors still act as if the are set at a higher difficulty and therefore build all the wonders and trade goods.

Seriously, if they are Maso players, don't worry about them. Anytime you play a strategy game at the top level, you leverage the mechanics for maximum effect and take advantage of the framework to win. That's not strategy to do the "1 influence" trick to all... that's just code mechanics (ie, cheese).

While GC has been closing out the code mechanics they've decided aren't needed anymore, you shouldn't let that get to you. I like to play at the moderate levels of the game. I find that more fun then trying to beat the game at Maso. GalCiv's starts have always sucked, as they have always forced you to work from a disadvantage (not knowing where things are, but the computer does), and always forced you to yellow rush. I find that extremely boring, but StarDock seems to think that's fun for all or at least best for later game developments. I can either let that stop me from playing, or accept it as the price we pay to play (and complain constantly to SD to change that).

What does complaining get us? Well, SD does listen, you know. That's why they have been changing the Minors to not build Wonders or Trade Goods... because people playing on the moderate to easy levels complain that certain Minors will always beat them to those things. Heck, that's why there's going to be a new switch in the setup to the game... so that you can disable Minors entirely. That addresses both that complaint, as well as the complaint that new minors are just an immediate invasion target after the start of the game.

StarDock does listen. If you find a change StarDock made to be ruining your fun, then do complain about it. Explain which change that you find to be interferring in your fun, and why. They really do listen. But if you run off because you aren't a Masochists, then that leaves one less non-Maso voice around to let StarDock know that what they did is making the non-Maso levels less fun then before. If you enjoy the game, I'd think you'd be willing to stick around and help StarDock refine the game to be even better, in your opinion.

Just my thoughts. I sympathize with you... I've found repeatily that I needed to "back down" on my usual level and kind of play to something simpler after an update so I could "relearn" or "focus my attention" on how some changes are impacting what I was used to.

And playing SMAC... SMAC is so easy to win (compared to its Civ relatives) because the AI was never really updated from Civ2 on how to use the new abilities. Heck, the AI in SMAC uses templates that are lifted directly from Civ2 and early SMAC Alpha testers... and some of those unit designs are not even legal by SMAC rules and changes anymore. I like SMAC for messing around in, but it is trivial to win in that game...

If you always want to win, and do so easily, in GC, then play a game with the AI set way down. If you want to play a hard game, and not know if you are going to win, then play at a challenging level/setting for you. If you want to play a challenging game of GC, but know you will win in the end, then set the game accordingly. What kind of fun do you want to have? It's up to you to find what settings fit your desired fun... but if something messes up your fun across the board, tell Star Dock. They listen.

I drove all day today. I thought a lot about this game. You have nailed something big on the head here. I DON'T want to win consistently, but I DO want to get consistently better. I just recently started with everyone on Bright, which was a big jump for me at least.

But like so many times before, the entire structure of the game has changed. The things I learned are no longer valid in the "new universe". It's like there is a "game template" here, and they just throw new values and techs and rules into the universe on a whim! It's not something I like. I play maybe 1 to 4 games a month, so I just don't have the time to relearn everything! I have never seen a game change itself over and over and over throughout it's life, and I just can't find the time to relearn the game every time they "Patch" it.

I was looking forward to AP, but at this point I just dread having to re-learn a whole new AI, when I am learning the whole new AI from GC.

~SDC~

elkabong, have you seen the planned changed for the 1.21 version? It seems that it will address some of your complaints

I would recommend you having a look at a succession game as it does provide a lot of handy tips.

I gathered a few ideas from watching, plus it is interesting to watch how other people play.

The commentry can be quite funny too.
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The succession games do help you learn what you are doing better. I took many of my strategys from their gameplay, and I have gradually worked my way up from the bottom, as you see from my profile. The starbase thing is a definte style change, but look at it from the money standpoint too. You don't pay for maintiance. How much did you spend on maintaining those bases, and how much do you spend now? Are you building all three of the base wonders?
I am sure Stardock will do what they can to help you, they are the best support staff for any game that I have ever found. I do hope you keep playing the game, but you just have to get used to a lower level, and work your way up. That is how I learned.
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