Naval unit integration discussion.

from AshesoftheSingularity Forums

Ok, so there has been talk about Ashes receiving a dlc/update with naval units. While this is a cool idea, a bunch of questions comes up as a result of it.

 

Lets start with the first question. Why have naval specific units when all of the units in the game can hover?

If units can hover, land or naval units could technically traverse both domains. So if the game does add naval specific units, how do you justify restricting land and naval units to their own domains?

 

The second question is how would land units interact with naval forces and vise versa?

This is based on the assumption that naval units would have some sort of long range cannon or missile launcher to engage land targets deep inland. So, when following that assumption, the issue then becomes, how would land forces defend themselves? Other games used shields and missile defense emplacements to protect from such threats. However, those solutions do not exist in the game, and would dramatically change Ashes' core gameplay if added.

 

The second part of question two is how do land units retaliate by attacking naval units?

The best solution I can think of is giving land units the capability to create long-range rocket and cannon artillery emplacements. However, this is not enough, land emplacements need to be able to also "see" targets to engage them. With the current radar system, this would be impossible due to the radar coverage being too small, even with a few quanta upgrades. So Ashes' radar system would have to be revamped. All of these changes would dramatically alter the Ashes' current gameplay.

 

The third question is, with naval units, should there be naval resource points?

One advantage for it, would be that players wouldn't be able to neglect naval territory if they intend to acquire resources and control of the map. The second advantage for adding naval resources points would be the possibility of naval only maps. However, the potential consequences is that players will become too focus on naval combat rather than land combat.

 

36,179 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top


Ok, so there has been talk about Ashes receiving a dlc/update with naval units. While this is a cool idea, a bunch of questions comes up as a result of it.

 

Lets start with the first question. Why have naval specific units when all of the units in the game can hover?

If units can hover, land or naval units could technically traverse both domains. So if the game does add naval specific units, how do you justify restricting land and naval units to their own domains?

 

The second question is how would land units interact with naval forces and vise versa?

This is based on the assumption that naval units would have some sort of long range cannon or missile launcher to engage land targets deep inland. So, when following that assumption, the issue then becomes, how would land forces defend themselves? Other games used shields and missile defense emplacements to protect from such threats. However, those solutions do not exist in the game, and would dramatically change Ashes' core gameplay if added.

 

The second part of question two is how do land units retaliate by attacking naval units?

The best solution I can think of is giving land units the capability to create long-range rocket and cannon artillery emplacements. However, this is not enough, land emplacements need to be able to also "see" targets to engage them. With the current radar system, this would be impossible due to the radar coverage being too small, even with a few quanta upgrades. So Ashes' radar system would have to be revamped. All of these changes would dramatically alter the Ashes' current gameplay.

 

The third question is, with naval units, should there be naval resource points?

One advantage for it, would be that players wouldn't be able to neglect naval territory if they intend to acquire resources and control of the map. The second advantage for adding naval resources points would be the possibility of naval only maps. However, the potential consequences is that players will become too focus on naval combat rather than land combat.

 

 

1. Obviously land units wont be able to hover over water to keep land and naval units separated. There does not need to be any explanation or justification why not.

2. Land units dont need to be able to interact with naval ones. The aircraft will be there for that purpose.

3. see above

4. yes

 

The most important thing is to avoid usual mistake and approach the use of the navies the same way as ground units. In other words dont make the water just a blue ground and ships glorified "tanks".

Additionally players should not see ships as an alternative to ground units which they can build once in a while to mix things a bit, when they become bored playing the same way.... they should build them because they need them to win.

The water should be there to divide one player from another. You should buy ships to carry your ground units to the other landmass to take on enemy bases, to protect/prevent that operation and to secure sea-based resources. 

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

Hover units hover via gravity channeling, they can't float on water.

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Reply #3 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

Hover units hover via gravity channeling, they can't float on water.

I like that! :thumbsup:

 

Reply #4 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Timmaigh, reply 1

1. Obviously land units wont be able to hover over water to keep land and naval units separated. There does not need to be any explanation or justification why not.

2. Land units dont need to be able to interact with naval ones. The aircraft will be there for that purpose.

3. see above

4. yes

 

The most important thing is to avoid usual mistake and approach the use of the navies the same way as ground units. In other words dont make the water just a blue ground and ships glorified "tanks".

Additionally players should not see ships as an alternative to ground units which they can build once in a while to mix things a bit, when they become bored playing the same way.... they should build them because they need them to win.

The water should be there to divide one player from another. You should buy ships to carry your ground units to the other landmass to take on enemy bases, to protect/prevent that operation and to secure sea-based resources. 

 

While land units don't need to be able to interact with naval forces, the same could be said regarding aircraft. So once you start thinking about your logic process, you can begin to realize how narrow and simple the gameplay would become.

So instead of pigeonholing players into one best way. We could instead allow all domains to be able to interact with each other. This create multiple dilemmas, and allow players more opportunities to choose how he wants to fight and win.

 

Reply #5 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2

Hover units hover via gravity channeling, they can't float on water.

 

That is something the marketing department would think of.  :grin:

 

Also, why float when you can hover.   ^_^

 

 

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting camo_steve, reply 4


Quoting Timmaigh,
reply 1


1. Obviously land units wont be able to hover over water to keep land and naval units separated. There does not need to be any explanation or justification why not.

2. Land units dont need to be able to interact with naval ones. The aircraft will be there for that purpose.

3. see above

4. yes

 

The most important thing is to avoid usual mistake and approach the use of the navies the same way as ground units. In other words dont make the water just a blue ground and ships glorified "tanks".

Additionally players should not see ships as an alternative to ground units which they can build once in a while to mix things a bit, when they become bored playing the same way.... they should build them because they need them to win.

The water should be there to divide one player from another. You should buy ships to carry your ground units to the other landmass to take on enemy bases, to protect/prevent that operation and to secure sea-based resources. 



 

While land units don't need to be able to interact with naval forces, the same could be said regarding aircraft. So once you start thinking about your logic process, you can begin to realize how narrow and simple the gameplay would become.

So instead of pigeonholing players into one best way. We could instead allow all domains to be able to interact with each other. This create multiple dilemmas, and allow players more opportunities to choose how he wants to fight and win.

 

No, it could not.

Its not about any pigeonholing, its about making naval gameplay different enough from standard land based gameplay. Let the players attack the enemy tanks with their walking ships or enemy ships with their hover tanks and you might as well have no water at all, cause it literally differs from ground only in its color.