Zeus HP bonus

from AshesoftheSingularity Forums

That Zeus HP bonus has been bothering me for a while so I checked how it scales up. HP of a Hyperion dreadnought (with no HP tech upgrades):

Base: 9,000

1 Zeus: 11,250

2 Zeus: 13,050

3 Zeus: 14,490

4 Zeus: 15,642

5 Zeus: 16,653

The % increase starts at 25% for the first zeus and falls off to 5.9% by the fifth one (I cannot see the HP of other units in the meta-unit so cannot see if the bonus only impacts the metaunit leader or all units in the metaunit). Now I understand that the game is about meta-units and there should be bonuses for grouping units together. But I strongly feel that the bonus has to be scaled down, especially the massive 25% boost from the first zeus.

This Zeus HP bonuses skews the battlefield and only encourages large meta units, with no tactical room for more flexible smaller metaunits. A usual counter to large unit groups like this in other strategy games would be to first retreat and then surround with smaller groups but for two reasons in AOTS this does not work:

- Slow unit speeds means that other smaller meta units cannot rush to the aid of the metaunit being attacked by the large enemy one in time. Usually the reinforcements show up just in time to see the first meta unit destroyed and then being destroyed themselves. AOTS is a game with large maps so there's often going to be lot of room between meta-units

- Disengaging from the large enemy force and retreating to a defensive point or a rally point also does not work given the combat speed penalty. If a metaunit is caught in combat by a large enemy metaunit, there are no effective retreat options

The result is that a larger metaunit can be only met by an equally large meta unit, and this removes a lot of the tactical depth and enjoyment from the game. I've had fights where I tried to flank a large meta unit with three of my own. My three units had about 10% more units than the single enemy unit, but that enemy unit slaughtered all three of my formations with hardly any losses. Metaunits should be able to destroy a larger number of non-grouped units in a battle, but with the current bonuses they can steamroll through a much larger number. Reducing that bonus will solve this issue. 

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Reply #1 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

I was neutral towards the bonuses originally but I don't like them now. I find many situations where I don't want the units in a meta-unit but feel I am forced to to gain the bonuses, otherwise my units become uncompetitive.

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Reply #2 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Some are good and wise, others are not. A speed and attack boost for an army designed to get behind enemy lines is good. An armor and range bonus for armies designed to defend is good. Straight bonuses for all just means more units = more effective. That kinda throws army composition out of the equation. Not sure what they can do in the limited time before release, though.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

We plan to move these bonuses out of the units and into the Dreadnought level up system.

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Reply #4 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

 

 
Sounds great. Indeed, having buffs and auras "spreading" from the toughest and dominant units, acting as a banner to enforce smaller ones seems to make sense.
 
 
Based on this, my opinion is that the meta-unit's wise composition will gain more importance, tactically, and the placement or complementarity between several ones even more interesting.
 
I'm pretty sure we can expect auras and buffs which are specific to each dreadnought type, to trigger with cooldowns or passive, and evolving with the dreadnought level, such as armor/HP bonuses from the frontline dreadnought, fitting very well with solid, armored front line units, things like detection range, energy regen, targeting uplink or else for the area dominance one, and range, maybe rate of fire and such for the siege one, fitting well with artys and rocket units. then the composition of the metas empowers such traits for the units contained in it. Players gain more choices with them, this sounds very promising. maybe an aerial dreadnought could give such bonuses, and aerial formations, for air units? ;)
 
The interesting question here, seems to know if the dreadnought types could as well enhance some formation types, engagement rules like range, or behaviours fitting with their role, able maybe to replace what we have usually with stances in other games? pushing the reasoning one step further, and reminding what we had in Sins with compact, normal and gravity well stances, could we expect some automatic formations and behaviours, based on the dreadnought type in the meta, and advantaging for example slower, but more compact formations, buffing a good first line fight with better concave, or at the opposite siege dreadnoughts metas, with more spaced formations, able to dodge more easily the aerial  bombings for example, or even area dominance ones advantaging defensive formations, movement and reorganization of the lines to emphasize on a good defensive behaviour on multiple fronts?