Not a rant (not suppose to be at least)

from SorcererKing Forums

I'm glad there have been mod streams of late even if a few have been cancelled.

I'm glad that the game was finished and was quite enjoyable when I played through the campaign it a time or two. I used to play it a lot before the game came out but I've experienced almost all the features.

Indeed, the main confidence builder is that Legendary Heroes is still getting updates so I believe it when it's been said that updates will continue for awhile.

I simply wish there has been more upfront communication about what might happen down the line. It's concerning when the main programmer goes and works on another project without explaining what's going to happen with SK in the future. Look, I'm excited about Star Control, Ashes, and likely other things you guys might do. 

Just wanted to ask if we could have a written roadmap. Heck, you could just say, "We'll show you the roadmap in January," Just something to believe in.

SK isn't my favorite game (EU4 gets that nod) but it quite fun and I want to see it do well but I'd love good, integrated stream mod support and hopeful updates.


 


 

 

51,541 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Posted by Brad in the Steam forums:

So we're budgeting out what will be in future versions of Sorcerer King. We've had a lot of opportunity to get great feedback on the base game. We think we have a really good foundation to build on.

Here's a quick walk-through:

The base game is designed to be a kind of fantasy Star Control type game. The challenge, however, is making the game so you that you will want to come back to it over and over again. For the new Star Control, we're addressing some of that (I can't talk about that yet).

So what about Sorcerer King?

Here's what we're looking at:

a. Separating the sovereign choice from the race.

You would choose a sovereign on the one hand and then a race on the other. The races would include Men (of course), Ironeers (new but a natural addition), The Wretched (the Fallen creatures that the Sorcerer King uses), and a couple others.

b. Sovereign choice helps determine victory conditions.
Right now, you play as the leader of a particular city state (Athica) and must thwart the Sorcerer King.

The change would be that you would have additional sovereign paths to victory. For example, one of the new Sovereigns would be Mirdoth (The Sorcerer King himself) and HIS goal is to destroy the shards.

Another sovereign's goal would be to corrupt the shards to turn the world into an undead paradise.

The difference here is that in the game, there'd be no minors. So if you're playing at the Undead, trying to corrupt the shards, the Sorcerer King is there trying to destroy them, The Warlord is trying to capture them, the Nature Guardian is trying to convert them into LIfe shards, etc.

In short, everyone would have their own specific agenda that you'd have to deal with rather than the other players merely being passive foils.

c. Combining crafting and resources. We'd combine the iron and gems you find on quests with actual world resources that you mine/collect/etc. These resource acciulmate (rather than 1 iron mine = 1 iron resource) This way, what buildings and techs and such you can acquire can be tied to what resources you have. Every game will play out differently because there will be a dozen + resources and odds are you won't have easy access to them (you'll have to trade or conquer to get them).

So that's a bit of a preview of what we're working on. No ETA yet. But I wanted you guys to know that Sorcerer King is here to stay for years to come. :)

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Thanks for posting that.

I don't use the steam forums for anything; so, it's good to see and a good direction. It reminds me of my pre-release suggestions I had many months ago. :) 

I wish that had been posted here too.

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Reply #3 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Yeah, wish Stardock would cross-post all of their posts.

 

I wish there was some idea of when we might see more content/DLC/patches/eXpansions for SK. The lack of info sucks :-(

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the ideas they have posted.  For me, the game currently has extremely limited replay value.  Not complaining as I feel like I got my money's worth playing some beta rounds and the finished campaign.  I just can't see investing any more time in it until there are some changes and content.

Reply #5 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I wish they'd make it easier to make mods and share them.  Especially the last part.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I can agree with the OP's sentiments. I love SK and hope to see more bug fixes, Ai and balance updates. I know there are some items that don't work properly and to me that's inexcusable considering this is 1.3.

Reply #7 from SorcererKing Forums Top

If there are any items that don't work properly you should definitely mention them.  We're not aware of any items that aren't working.

Regarding a broad road map.

As Rhonin mentioned, we have a lot of things we would like to do with Sorcerer King in the future.  The main problem right now has to do with sales.   The Revenge of the Snathi GalCiv DLC sold more than Sorcerer King last month even though the Snathi DLC wasn't on sale (SK was).

I'm currently working on 1.4, mostly on AI updates.

But the challenge remains: Replayability.  The game was meant to be a sort of fantasy Star Control / FTL type game.  The replayability is supposed to come from trying to destroy the SK under different cirucumstances.

The question is, what can we do, without some sequel-level change, to increase the replay ability?

Reply #8 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Replayability is why I haven't really played it since it came out even though I logged a lot of hours in the game before it game out as a beta-tester. To be fair, there's a lot of games I've beat and then come back to play when new content come out.

Ironically, this is the same issue that presented itself back in May in this thread: http://forums.sorcererking.com/466063/page/1/#replies

My suggestions, which are on the first page, still haven't changed but the same concerns about allocating resources in an undesirable direction still exists I imagine.

If it was me though:

1. I'd want to create a set of separate goals/endings that any sovereign can achieve in under specific circumstances. Become the Sovereign King, make SK your slave, go through with the spell, make friends with all the allied factions and become king, enslave all the allied factions, destroy all the shards, abuse the shards for the win, use them for good and cast the superfriendly win spell. 

2. The above list is the set up the second most important goal for the game: make the steam achievement mean something. I have 85% of the achievements done and the last five I didn't do out of not having played the game lately. There should be at least twice as many achievement and all should be totally doable but possibly hard or only possible in several playthroughs with different factions. For example, there would be achievements for the list above, one for getting all the shards, or even do twenty inn quests without failing. 

I play Europa Universalis 4 in Ironman mode because I like setting a goal. Sure, playing as France is different than England, but a secondary goal is an achievement I can do. I've only reached like 25% of their achievements.

3. Ideally, for this series, each faction is playable in someway. I see this taking a lot of resources though but it would make me want to play through each faction as long as they played differently and perhaps had different goals.

Major question that I've always wanted to know: it feels challenging to know what to improve on the game next knowing the limited resources. A lot of this problem seems to stem from not knowing if the end result will make a profit or even break even. For example, I know personally, that I'd buy a sovereign customization DLC as long as it was priced fairly. Could you do almost a kickstarter type circumstance where, like the example above, you get pledges to create a sovereign customization DLC. You then quote the amounts and how many people would need to pledge to make it happen. 

I think I understand the challenge in regards to scripting/writing/art and balancing the current load with the possibility of hiring new people who have benefits and time to learn the process. This altogether with hoping the dlc will continue to make money. 

Thanks

 

http://forums.sorcererking.com/466063/page/1/#replies

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

What always put me off in SK as well as in the FE was the extremely limited scale of the game. It is hard to believe you are fighting an epic battle, when there are like 15 soldiers involved from each side :-/

Would be great if we can at least adjust the number of figures in an unit via some sort of "Unit size" setting.

 

Reply #10 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I've always said that adding more than a few more lieutenants, adding some Sorcerer King variability, and adding even more quests (especially more that provide unique monster encounters) is your best bet towards replayability for now, until you add races. Why not have a few different Sorcerer King forms, too? One time he could transform to a shadow dragon, another time a giant spider? Having a few different forms - and therefore some added variation to his unit types - would really add replayability. 

 

Also, add ways that I can obtain unique once-in-a-few-game items, like powerful mounts, swords or armor. The excitement of finding those types of items would definitely generate more replayability. 

 

I do find it crazy that Thea: The Awakening, a game that's incredibly similar in premise to SK, has already sold more than SK. Perhaps you should add some more survival elements like Thea has? Take a look at it, for sure...

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Applying the suggestions given in this thread will essentially turn SK into LH lite.

And honestly, given the choice, I'd rather play LH.

Reply #12 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I like Thea.  Good game and can be tough.  I think one thing that would help SK is bringing in more of the elemental theme.  Having recently picked up LH, I don't feel there is a good tie in between the two.  If you play the campaign, you kind of feel like there is some tie in, but it's vague at best. 

I think adding races will definitely help replayability.  My big wish is that they make it so you can put up and add mods through steam.  Test it with SK, where admittedly the modding community is small, but we can be a test group, petri dish or whatever for doing it.  I'd be willing to do more modding if it could be done through steam and put up there.  As it is, it's hard to know if people are using it and such.

Reply #13 from SorcererKing Forums Top

you can try adding some stuff on the map that gives global buffs to armies when controlled. for example, there could be a place of power which gives the controlling player's forces protection from fire.

then the player has to choose between conquering that spot on the map or trying to win the game with a disadvantage of the SK's forces being strong against fire magic.

if there are many of these contentious spots every game, then there are more conflicts and more choices of what to do on the overall strategic layer. as long as the game is balanced so that you don't have enough time to conquer the entire map, this can add some variety to each playthrough.

 

even shards can be given some variety. everything doesn't have to give +5 mana/turn.

does the strategy in civilization change if there was only corn instead of corn + rice + pigs + wheat + cows + sheep + 10 other things? not really, but the replayability is different

 

the variety of enemies could also be improved without getting more art or design

there are mobs that have the exact same composition of units at the exact same levels and with the exact same layout every single game, and i often run into duplicates of identical mobs multiple times in a single game

Reply #14 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting XWerewolfX, reply 10

I've always said that adding more than a few more lieutenants, adding some Sorcerer King variability, and adding even more quests (especially more that provide unique monster encounters) is your best bet towards replayability for now, until you add races. Why not have a few different Sorcerer King forms, too? One time he could transform to a shadow dragon, another time a giant spider? Having a few different forms - and therefore some added variation to his unit types - would really add replayability. 

 

Also, add ways that I can obtain unique once-in-a-few-game items, like powerful mounts, swords or armor. The excitement of finding those types of items would definitely generate more replayability. 

 

I do find it crazy that Thea: The Awakening, a game that's incredibly similar in premise to SK, has already sold more than SK. Perhaps you should add some more survival elements like Thea has? Take a look at it, for sure...

 

Adding "more stuff" isn't likely to address the underlying challenges the game faces.   Also, SK is not meant to be Fallen Enchantress II. 

The fundmanetal problemI see is that there is a replayability expectation for SK that wasn't present for Star Control or FTL. 

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 14


Adding "more stuff" isn't likely to address the underlying challenges the game faces.   Also, SK is not meant to be Fallen Enchantress II. 

The fundamental problem I see is that there is a replayability expectation for SK that wasn't present for Star Control or FTL. 
 
 
I'm not trying to sound snarky or negative here, just pragmatic:
 
SK is a lot of fun for a short time. Price it accordingly, and move on.
 
Reply #16 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I would love to see SK features in a game with the replayability of a traditional 4X.

 

 

Reply #17 from SorcererKing Forums Top

well one difference between FTL and SK is that I lose 90% of my runs on FTL whereas I win 75-90% of my games of SK depending on how much i reload due to taking unnecessary risks to win faster. hardest difficulty for both.

if I really abused save/reload or just played slower/conservatively, I think SK would be impossible to lose.

Reply #18 from SorcererKing Forums Top

As I've previously said elsewhere, making things work will add a good chunk of replayability.

 

Make crystals (not shards) work, make non mounted units work, make more than 20% of spells work, make heroes besides of varda-drogan-swordsman :) work, make more items and enchantments work, make more than one branch of heroes's skills work, sovereign trees need some love as well. People will start to actually use all that stuff, make it just a bit more scarce, and players will use different stuff every game.

 

Also that's would be great to see more diverse maps. I believe it can be achieved without adding more tiles, by simply rotating said tiles :).