Quickmatch resource allocation / random events

I'm me and I support the disappearance of random events in QMs. Random events frequently favor one or the other player clearly without any ability to counter it. There is no way to anticipate something that can not be detected in advance and can or not occur at any time. We've had no random events in the tourneys and in my opinion it should also be no random events in QMs, if QMs are to be fair and balanced.

The issue with the abundance of resources on maps and the ability of one player to found first on the only good spot founding is unfair in the light of the b5 scanning mechanic. I believe this will be balanced out by the reveal map debt minigame in b6 but I can't be certain until I test it.

On an somewhat related note I'd also like to suggest a 1 or 2 second delay that prevents you from founding straight after someone else does (regardless of location) so that if your opponent founds at the same time (but slightly earlier) as you in a way that destroys your found, you can reconsider and found elsewhere. This happens in situations where good tiles are in small spaces that can not be founded next to such as happened in a game I posted a screenshot of earlier (see picture). This also is mostly chance related and shouldn't be in 1v1 in my opinion as simultaneous founds are beyond the capability of players to deal with and have nothing to do with skill or ability.

*

Random events are particularly unfair in duels, because it's pretty much zero sum. What you lose is what your opponent gains. When in FFA multiple people can profit or get hurt by the event. But making the game fair and yet interesting and exciting is not trivial. The most fair setting would be mirrored map, with no random events at all. Which can quickly turn into a click fest and not necessarily the game I am personally looking for, but I bet some players would be pleased. 

I am not sure how reveal map can help with weird resource distribution. If there's still only one prime spot it becomes poker game. Not much to do with OTC. The outcome is determined right there. Someone loses either by taking too much debt or by missing on the only valid founding location. We'll have to see, but I doubt that will solve the issue completely. 

Agreed, more balanced map resources is key to a competetive match. I'm also not a fan of the random events.

2nd the delay after another colony founds. I hope its not too long though because it should be possible to screw someone over who founds too far from the desired resource. I have had instances where we both found at the same time, one on the resources, another near them, which sucks because I'd never found at that spot after the other player founded.

Cubit: I see that situation around frequently. Carbon sometimes requires founding so far away that a found/claim rush is inevitable leading to an auto win/loss. On the other hand, I also see similar situations, except there is room to found touching the carbon, but the scav still founds outside, and I take advantage and found inside, thereby letting me have the better carbon tiles.

InSyncOTC: Reveal map will because you assume debt to take the better spot, which hopefully is enough to offset the difference between the best spot, and the 2nd best spot. Better players will have a better idea how much debt can be taken on safely.

I don't like the thought of mirrored maps. It was a good thing in starcraft since it got rid of silly imbalances that exists on certain maps (like Lost Temple) and mineral placement. However, mirroring the map in OTC will make it so the players aren't really fighting it out with each other. It will remove the competition over claims for the less important resources since those resources will be present on both sides of the map. There would always be 2 triangles of water (if there was one) etc. There'd be no way to shut another player out of a less important resource like that water or silicon since it would always exist in duplicate, unless its one lone tile on each side. 1v1 is fun because there's an element of risk*. Mirroring the map decreases limited interaction even further. I am on board with trying to get the 2 starting locations to be closer to equal in value that they currently end up being. I like the reveal map mechanic because it removes the pressure and need to mirror the map.

*This is after each player founds on a functional starting position. Ideally, you'd be able to function without iron or carbon, but steel consumption is just so massive in comparison to other resources (power excluded) that its impossible to progress without producing them yourself. You can function without silicon or carbon as there are other options.

indczn, personally I'd not want to play on mirrored map. IMO, they are pretty boring. But I can't see how making it a custom option could hurt anybody. Less contest over claims opens almost unlimited choices and investing in the right market at the right point of time is still one of the key elements for success. That's what determines the outcome on maps with abundant resources now. Why would it be any different on mirrored map?

As for reveal map option, there's no problem (even with scanning really, which I hate wholeheartedly) as long as there is a second COMPETITVE spot on the map. The problem becomes pretty obvious when there is no such spot. We also have a problem if there's only one patch of base resource. I had a game with a single aluminum patch on the entire map and another odd low tile in the opposite corner. The game was over the moment I planted robotic HQ on top of the patch and claimed what was left of it. We got no aluminum auctions until very late - too late to matter, nor Slant Drilling auction. How could reveal map balance out that situation? Sure, better player will know that taking 60k debt and half a minute of head start in this scenario is perfectly reasonable, but do you really want a gg that very moment? I don't. 

Well, this discussion rings a bell...

I have to say I changed my opinion on resource gen in larger games, even in a 4 man FFA it's possible to conjure something on a "bad" map. However in 1v1 you need to be (almost) self-sufficient, which you do not in FFAs. So I guess resource gen becomes more important but I am 90% that ones Reveal Map becomes default in QM you will find that map gen really isn't at all that bad. All these horrible map situations are much rarer than normal, playable maps because as I had pointed out before, 1v1 is normally played on small maps (which supposedly were meant for 3 players), not tiny. I believe it is the case for QM as well.

But if we are talking about how to improve resource gen, a rather radical idea I've had the other day is that the normal terrain can be removed (since it hardly spawns anything). This might, however, turn the resource-friendly maps insane as there will be just way too much... also it will remove the normal map type (which I frankly don't mind too much)

We're not talking about 'meh' maps where you don't have convenient silicon next to your adjacent iron and water triangles. We're talking about maps where there's no enough base resources (iron/carbon/aluminum) that can't be destroyed by HQ thus denied completely from your opponent. And also about maps with 1 high value carbon triangle and an aluminum patch close by with odd single tiles of everything else scattered around. The vast majority of maps is indeed workable and fine as is, but there's 10-15% which is pretty silly. I don't think resource gen needs an overhaul, but it does need a fine tuning and balancing, IMO.

If you call a map with adjacent water and iron a "meh" map then I imagine you have huge problems with map gen

My proposal sounds massive but the more I think of it the more I like it. This would not just help with the amount of resources but also with the allocation. Thi would basically create a couple extra fields of resources... which would save almost any map. But it might ruin the "easy" ones.

I also don't think that 10-15% percent of the map are that terrible, perhaps I'm wrong on this one as I've mostly been playing QM on the current beta and avoiding the scary players. And I do claim that I'm better at scanning than an average person, so I mostly found first and get the nicer spots.

My bad, I'll put sarcasm alert next time for ya.

Terrible is not the correct word, I believe. I'd say unfair. There's portion of maps where the outcome is decided upon founding. I don't think this should ever be the case, no matter who grabbed the better spot. There should be ways to counter a better found and ways to make a comeback. 

I haven't played too many 1v1's where the map being unplayable wasn't caused by the players themselves founding and crushing resources. Granted, those carbon/alum spawns are very annoying to play against, but I suspect that the 50k debt assumed for that spot would make up the difference. I'd like to wait and see how the 1v1 plays with reveal map on before they make too many changes to the maps/resource spawning.

Of course the players are crushing resources. They would be stupid not to, They are rewarded in so many ways! They get extra resources to start with. They have the desired resource connected to their HQ. They drive the prices up and the most important of them all - they deny the resources from their opponents. Now give me one good reason not to crush resource patches upon founding. Maybe this is exactly the issue? Maybe instead of being rewarded the players need to be punished for destroying perfectly viable deposits? Idk. Just a thought. This would also make sense from story POV. 

Those god mode scav spots (or others to a lesser extent) are not annoying to play against, they are annoying to have in game in general. Seriously, I'd rather lose due to unfortunate map gen than due to my bad play. I haven't lost many games to a much superior found myself. When I lose it's usually because my opponents are stronger and I am helping them by being and idiot (my signature pro move is EMP'ing myself). But I've still lost a few of them because of that and also won a decent bunch for the same reason. 

A game I played last night is a perfect example. 1v1, small and revealed map with god mode location - carbon triangle including high carbon, plenty of aluminum and water everywhere, some iron and only 3 low silicon tiles. 1 lonely tile close to the dream spot and 2 adjacent ones miles away. No pirates nor mutinies but AB and claims in BM pool. What are the options for the player who doesn't grab the dream spot? To go robotic on a silicon and grab the only one tile left? Scav wouldn't care. Go scavanger on 2 low carbon and try to catch up in a lost battle? There was no scientific spot and expansive... well... I would have chosen that had I not been fast enough to the god mode spot. But against semi decent player that would have been a lost battle anyway. I hit lvl5 by the morning of day 3 and could start launching on day 4, controlling all the silicon on the map. There was no way to counter the snowballing effect. No way whatsoever.

I don't remember how much debt I took. Not too much though, probably could've gone as far as 80k even, but haven't. It didn't matter. The thing about debt (and reveal map supposedly evening out the 'unfairness') is that it doesn't matter until the late game when stock manipulation begins. As long as you avoid D bond rating by any means. including cooking the books, you're good to go. With 2 upgrades lead the stock manipulation phase just was not gonna happen. Not in effective manner. 

Anyways, my point is - the map should never grant an auto win for one player, not even if he is better and knows to grab the spot first. Hopefully I made it clear, because I really have nothing else to add to this discussion right now.

Fun fact: You don't get D bond rating until you go over 200K in debt in a 1 vs 1. If your founding scavenger or robotic you can found as early as 100K and be perfetly fine. Meanwhile, your opponent is forced to foudn almsot immediatly after you, taking on a ton of debt himself, otherwise you out pace him too quickly, so the debt usually evens itself out because your playing robotic/scavenger and he's a scientist, despite you founding earlier.

Anything wrong with this picture? Oh well... maybe it's just me...

Anyways, add this silliness to crazy resource consumption and QM are not very enjoyable ATM. And I'm being gentle here....

I haven't seen a single high carbon in about a couple dozen QMs, and so scavenger seems like a non-option. I hope to see them more, but have high carbs been removed?

InSyncOTC, I agree, thats bad. A player shouldn't be able to control every tile of a resource solely by founding.

Want to hear something really funny? The first auction was for the nuke... That didn't feel bad at all. Just... sad. 

No idea about carbon. Haven't play scav for a while myself. Probably there were no decent spots. Will pay more attention in the nearest future. 

Oh... really?