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Revisiting Supreme Commander

Revisiting Supreme Commander

Of the games made in the past decade, Supreme Commander is probably the most similar to what we’re doing with Ashes of the Singularity.  Its creator, Chris Taylor and I have been friends for years (I picked up his backyard chicken hobby and he picked up my beekeeping hobby).   Chris also made my favorite game of all time, Total Annihilation.

A few years ago, Stardock worked with Gas Powered Games to make Demigod. Demigod started out as Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance and evolved into the final game. If you haven’t played Demigod, I recommend it. It is excellent.  Demigod never took off like we hoped.  Timing wasn’t on its side.  It was the first stand-alone commercial MOBA.  It was also the last non-free to play MOBA (it was $39.99 when released) and League of Legends quickly overtook it.

Setting up Supreme Commander

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Game setup

When the player sets up a game of Supreme Commander, you get to pick amongst various types of AIs.   AI is something we’re very passionate about here.  As I type this from Stardock East, we have the AI developers of Civilization III, IV, V and GalCiv I/II here.    From a replayability stand point. giving players lots setup options makes the single player part of the game more compelling.

Elegant main game UI

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Like a 4X, Supreme Commander gives you and readout of how the other players are doing

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Very clear, pretty paths.

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Strategic Zoom

 

There are a lot of very good features in the Supreme Commander UI that I think should be standard in RTSs:

  1. It displays a power rating for each player.  We do this in our other games as well but RTS almost never do this.  The reason this is important is because a lot of interesting game options can be created around it.  In Ashes of the Singularity, we will have maps available that are bigger than anything that’s been made before (thanks 64bit).    We want to avoid scenarios where the player has t o spend an hour mopping up if they don’t want to.
  2. Intuitive clear paths for the player to take along with an ETA on how long it will take to get there.
  3. Some method of gaining situational awareness of the entire war (in SupCom that was done through strategic zoom)

Please post in the comments section the UI elements of Supreme Commander you think are key.

 

Gameplay

Gameplay is unique to each game.  Supreme Commander, like Total Annihilation, has a lot of gameplay elements we really love which include:

  • Infinite resources (your resources never run out)
  • Wrecks (destroyed units stick around and can be recovered for some of their resources)
  • Lots of units
  • Construction units can aid in the construction of other things
  • You pay for things as you are building them

This is just scratching the surface but these 5 things help define what is essentially a sub-genre of RTSs.

 

Strategic Zoom

There’s been a lot of debate on the forums on strategic zoom.  This is because we are trying to avoid the kind of strategic zoom in Supreme Commander. Specifically, we don’t want to zoom out to a sea of icons where players end up playing most of the game from there. 

Why the resistance?

Because in the long-term we expect (as the hardware gets better) to have maps far beyond even where ships in 1.0.  We want to use 1.0 as the time to come up with another way to zoom out and get an abstracted view of the battle field.  Turning individual units into icons won’t work because we’ll be dealing with thousands, possibly tens of thousands of units. 

We will have a zoom out mode (or secondary monitor support) for a war room where the entire war can be abstracted.  But

 

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Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance

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Ashes of the Singularity: Pre-Beta

 

How to make it a war, not a battle?

One of our biggest struggles is that we don’t want the game to be purely about  cranking out tons of units and throwing them at each other.  Unit composition, resource access, positioning should all be crucial factors.

What do you think?

431,486 views 65 replies
Reply #51 Top

Quoting The_Nightbringer, reply 57

Also, more buildings, more units, more mechanics, more micro-management.  I suggest that you study the game Rise of Legends closely, it was one of the best ever in that you could quite easily have a battle raging over literally 1/4 of the map continuously for over an hour at a time.  In addition, try to lessen the computational power required to run the game, so many of my friends want to play it but can't because it takes a gaming pc to run it

 
They said the same about SupCom when it first came out.  *I can't run it make it slower and smaller like all these other RTS games*

 

This is not about small unit tactics.  This is about motherfucking ARMIES.  You don't manage an army down to it's minutiae - you tell it who to kill and what the priorities are and it heads off to kill that thing.  

Reply #52 Top

I agree that experimenting on maps with far fewer nodes would be very interesting. Once we can make our own maps then I can see this happening anyway.

Reply #53 Top

Please make the engine able to handle many units, I love all the SC games but the slow down with 3 human vs 3 AI with a unit cap of 500 is terrible, we all play on new gen i7's too.

 

That's the deal breaker for me in SC and hopefully will not be in this

Reply #54 Top

Quoting MGSaSniper, reply 61

Please make the engine able to handle many units, I love all the SC games but the slow down with 3 human vs 3 AI with a unit cap of 500 is terrible, we all play on new gen i7's too.

 

That's the deal breaker for me in SC and hopefully will not be in this

 

We play on FAForever on seton  with 12 players   (6v6)  When all players have the Cpu at -300  and all have decent net ( yes we have a tool on lobby that shows that)

we play all game without any lag and in late game there is +10.000 units, i have play it so many without any kind lag and we are talk about a old engine with horrible pathfind and its not max to 8 players its to 12 and we are try to have + on FAF X64 bits .

 

So iff you have problems play SC with 3 human vs 3 AI with a unit cap of 500 and is terrible its really your system that cant hold all information.

 

But AOTS can have all this to bether .....way bether and its moving every day on that direction, and in the and all will see a fantastic game ,but until that point we will complain a lot oh we will  :grin:  

Reply #55 Top

Hey thanks for the reply, I don't think its my system -  i7 4970k, dual 980ti SLI and 32gb Dominator ram running from an ssd, my friends systems are very similar.

Its not lag per say its slow down, the top timer goes to -1 -2 -3 sometimes and time runs slower.

I admit we do play with mods like blacktops, total mayhem etc.. ( We play FAF )

It just gets annoying, we also play sorian which is supposed to combat this problem

Reply #56 Top

It will probably be the AI, they slow the game down a lot more than humans.

 

Quoting tatsujb, reply 60

dude you must've missed the community map thread  . I agree that our creativity is currently very limited but choosing the resource placement is definitely  your job in the editor so it's great!

Thanks man, I keep meaning to check them out. I don't know how hard the map editor really is to use but it doesn't look very user friendly. I'll give it a whirl sometime for sure.

Reply #57 Top

Quoting Ticktoc, reply 64

I keep meaning to check them out. I don't know how hard the map editor really is to use but it doesn't look very user friendly. I'll give it a whirl sometime for sure.

There are some nice Community made maps out there already, some of them are really fun to play. and i do think the dev's should look at them and play them and give their opinion.

The map Editor is very easy to use, you just need to know what each icon and buttons are for.