The Mid-Game Blahs

from SorcererKing Forums

So the beginning is fun, getting your hero leveled up and exploring the world.  The end is fun when you storm SK's castle.  The mid game is alot of beating up monsters just to level and get materials.  This, by itself is boring (as it is any any RPGish or 4Xish game).  What do I want to see mid-game?

I want SK to really peeve me.  not "I'm watching you" and send a pack of archers my way, annoying as that is.  Capture an allied factions leader and put them in a tower.  The faction won't help me until I rescue their leader.  Cast a spell on my heros and chuck their equipped items into random treasure chests throughout the world.  Or steal the treasures and put them on random SK minions and I can only recover them by fighting said minions.  Have him curse my main hero with concrete boots (movement = 1, intit = init-6) until I recover the magic chisel from a hermit on a mountain.  

This seems like a chance to convert the end game from "I'm coming for you because that's how I win the game" to "SK, you made me mad.  angry.  I will come for you and I will finish you no matter what the cost"  

I have a feeling this will also happen as SK spells are built into the game.

 

7,358 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Some of those ideas feel like tedium, like chucking the eq- more frustrating than fun.

 

That said, mid-game is a weak spot right now.   My suspicion is that it's because you don't get enough new toys in the mid-game, and maybe a lack of quests.  Maybe borrow an idea from the original war of Magic kinda and have sovereign level ups (maybe past a certain point) unlock more quests or more heros.

 

I also think some traditional LH style loot needs to come out in the mid-game to give heroes more powerful items.

 

 

Reply #2 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Generally speaking I agree with you in terms of the mdi game.

If SK is a 3 act game,, act 2 needs some more punch.

The Dungeon Master is supposed to be the primary element there but it's very content sensitive (i.e. there's little content).  

That said, I would like some...thing to split my attention. I just don't know what that thing is yet.

In FTL terms, it would be the equivalent of a shop or something on the map that encourages me to spend a lot of stuff to get other stuff I might need.

 

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Reply #3 from SorcererKing Forums Top

If the crafting system is still on track to be revised, that could help with the mid=game issue.

 

Reply #4 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting Borg999, reply 3

If the crafting system is still on track to be revised, that could help with the mid=game issue.

 
End of Borg999's quote

Yea, a lot of that is also going to come down to making sure people can upgrade their stuff by using their equipment as ingredients.

Reply #5 from SorcererKing Forums Top

I'm working on the priest today and she's pretty fun so far.  It makes it clear that we need to revisit the Wizard later.

The priest gets wishes that are very very limited super spells.  She can get more via her skill tree. But those spells are really fun.

 

Reply #6 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5

I'm working on the priest today and she's pretty fun so far.  It makes it clear that we need to revisit the Wizard later.

The priest gets wishes that are very very limited super spells.  She can get more via her skill tree. But those spells are really fun.

 
End of Frogboy's quote

 

Will she be in a snapshot soon?

I tried playing as the Wizard and actually enjoyed it still, but he is very vanilla. Vanilla is good, but there needs to be something more for more advanced players there, or it will always be the go-to beginner's sovereign.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

What also might spice things up is perhaps more unique units per class.  Right now it pales in comparison to say, Age of Wonders 3 classes.  I know that's a different direction, but I think wider sovereign trees and faster sovereign levels might help.  This might be too costly/ambitious to do right now, and would be something for the inevitable sequel in 2020

Reply #8 from SorcererKing Forums Top

What the boring mid game looks like in my games:

I grab four (or more) shards and the build mountains/uber outposts to block off SKs minions.  At this point I can generate enough mana to keep the doomsday counter by reducing it as fast (or faster) than SK bumps it up.  At this point I level up my stack of doom where ever it is convenient.  Sometimes my setup is tight enough to go exploring.  Other times I level up by mopping up SK minions that wander too close to an outpost if my setup is a little leaky.

At this point it would be nice if SK (or DM) did something besides "Here, level up on minions, and when you are ready go kill yerself an SK"

One way to handle this would be to nerf "reduce doomsday".  Several ideas:

1) Each cask gives SK a temporary buff (outposts do 1/4 damage for 5 turns, random outpost destroyed, Some mana goes into SK's mana pool, player heroes frozen for 3 turns)

2) Make it a scroll and add reagents to the current pile of mana required.  Could make ability to cast the spell "questy" by doing this.  Could even have spell triggered by having Doomsday counter get 3/5 full, ensuring SK gets some serious doom going even if player is sitting on a pile of mana.

3) Diminishing turns or increased cost with each cast.

Other possibilities:

Weaken outposts/other defensive buildings.  Add a one per faction strong defensive building so your hero doesn't have to babysit your capital. I've had game fall into "defend you big city with your hero and don't quest cuz you'll get killed" and this is boring.  Or have weaker defensive buildings, but have them gain a temporary buff when you complete quests/clear bandit lairs/ destroy SK settlements.  Make it optimal for the SOD to go around clobbering stuff (with a purpose, not just to gain levels, the classic bane of any game with RPG elements), not sitting home picking off SK minions.

 

Reply #9 from SorcererKing Forums Top

Good feedback.

And in fact, internally, I nerfed the reduced doomsday counter a bit (it's now 100 mana for 15 points).  

There's also a lot more back and forth now with the SK (in terms of him doing bad things to you and you doing bad things to him) and just general interaction.

That said, we still have a long ways to go imo.