[1.6][Bug?] Broken Loyalties - is this game breaking or what?

from Elemental Forums

I've never encountered this spell in previous games, but there is a Kraxis spell Broken Loyalties.

A quick search indicates this was changed from having mana cost to having gold cost. So in other games, either the AI chose not to use it, or couldn't afford it.

It appears the game (with this faction present) might be completely broken as a result - or have I missed something?

 

So I'm on Season 75, have never met Kraxis (who is a minor faction in terms of power rating), then all of a sudden he owns one of my cities. And he also does this to some of my allies' cities too - possibly in the same turn. Presumably, as I've not seen his scouts, he has used a spell to scout me out, or has an econ treaty with a neighbour.

Because mana is not required, and AI factions start with 50,000 gold (I play with all settings on insane, to reduce throwaway games which have become a pushover by mid-game and all my time/strategy investment is wasted), this spell is incredibly cheap.

So at season 75, even with the expected AI rush-buying every building they can, he still has 38k in the bank. There are less than 38 cities on the map (at a guess, I've barely explored a third of it). Does anyone see a problem here? What on earth were the devs thinking making this so darn cheap?

I'm particularly miffed, as I was 2 turns away from building the Great Mill, which was quite expensive - I lose all my population, production progress, and numerous buildings. I could accept this and recapture and rebuild were this an expensive spell he is likely never to afford again, and not against someone he has never met and has no particular quarrel with. But if I take the city back, am I just going to put all this effort back in only to have my buildings / production progress and all my population obliterated over and over again?

Sounds like Kraxis is a broken faction for now - is this a known issue, and are the devs dealing with it?

Or are there some sort of hidden checks and balances to prevent him recasting the spell on the same city/faction until his gold runs out?

 

This used to be such a fun game. I decided to fire it up after a year or so as I got the new DLC packs - and was really getting into my game, and had a lot invested in it - so this is very frustrating. I'm faced with having to start all over without this faction present or go play something else.

23,381 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top


Kraxis has always had the Broken Loyalties ability.

I agree in that a simple gold fee is able to purchase an entire city. Having an additional limitation added to the spell would go a long way towards balance, imo. Whether that be through and additional Fame fee or through a city unrest threshold; that would need to be played with.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 1
Whether that be through and additional Fame fee

That's a good idea, and seems in flavor with the Krax.

:yes:

 

Another option would be a longish cooldown, like 20 turns.

 

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Perhaps a significant cooldown would help this spell?  Maybe 10 turns.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

@Primal_Savage: Ah yes, thanks for that. As you suggested, just make peace with the weakling - not sure why I didn't think of that, guess I had forgotten how easy it is to automatically have weaker factions want to make peace in this game. Wasn't possible beforehand having never met any of his units - but hasn't happened since.

I guess in past games I've always met him earlier on - when he doesn't have the spell - and been friendly enough by the time he did I never saw it used. Or because it had a mana cost when last I played a year or so ago.

Thanks for the heads up on your mods. I've been looking around at what is on offer, and looking forward to incorporating a bunch of mods on my next play through. Should breathe some life into the game, and maybe make it challenging through to the end :)

Are there any mods that make the AI a bit less inclined to give into all your demands once you are ahead, and hence declare war when it is not convenient (I don't have to start them all)? I'm a builder by nature - so I like a game which stretches me in that regard. But having the AI actually able to win should be good enough (they'll presumably attack if they're ahead - I seem to recall that when I was learning the game).

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Any cities hit with broken loyalties will lose their militia for the rest of the game. -.-

 

I think.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

 

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 3

Additionally, you can try this spell to simulate the Tower of the Magi protection (It's a city enchantment). I doubt, however, that you will have access to Arcane Bulwark (That's the spell name) by Season 75 and you would still need to do the above mod for it to work against Broken Loyalties.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/45jfsdc2038fvk0/XD_ProtectFromSpells.zip[/quote]

 

Combine this with:

 

<SpellDef InternalName="BrokenLoyalties">
<SpellClass>Offensive</SpellClass>


 

So the 2 spells:

 

1. Protects units from all spells

2. Protects cities from all spells

 

Cost 15 mana, 1 per turn?

 

So that would be all spells? Including broken loyalties unlike the Tower of the Magi?

 

How often do you see Karavox using this against the AI?

 

Quoting Ericridge, reply 6

Any cities hit with broken loyalties will lose their militia for the rest of the game. -.-

 

I think.

 

Can anyone else confirm this?

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, tested in game. It does work.

 

Although I need to go to war with Kraxis to test out again.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting GFireflyE, reply 1


Kraxis has always had the Broken Loyalties ability.

I agree in that a simple gold fee is able to purchase an entire city. Having an additional limitation added to the spell would go a long way towards balance, imo. Whether that be through and additional Fame fee or through a city unrest threshold; that would need to be played with.

 

I think that this should also scale with the city you're capturing. Right now you pay 1,000 whether it's a city with several wonders and a level 5 (a bargain) or a level 1 settlement (for which you'd never use the spell for).

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

So there's several issues right now:

 

1. Kraxis has a massive amount of gold to start with

 

2. Does not scale based on target city size

 

3. No way to defend against the spell

 

I think that it needs to be re-balanced in some way some how.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I think it should massively scale with distance from kraxis border. Exponentially. May be even cheaper then 1000 for immediate neighbor, but quickly raise to dozens of thousands for cities on other side of the map.