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How to keep ship spam down.

How to keep ship spam down.

I suspect this idea would hurt the AI, it could be rejected on this alone and I'd understand.

 

One thing I didn't like about GalCiv II (and this applies to SD games in general) is the sheer amount of crappy units the AI tends to generate, which serve as nothing more then speedbumps.

 

Would giving planets auto-garrison ships and making hyperdrive-capable ships really expensive to maintain cut down on this- also maybe have logistics determine how many ships you can have not in friendly/neutral space?

 

I haven't thought this idea out much- but curious to see what people thought about it- or I could just be high on bathroom cleaning fumes ^_^

109,666 views 64 replies
Reply #51 Top

Split manufacturing into resource production and ship assembly ....


Assembly plants require resources .... hence ship numbers will be limited by resource accumulation ... like money accumulates ....


Require specific resources for specific components.  .... 


In my little cloud of imaginary thought, it sounds reasonable, but programing wise,,, I don't know if it is a good idea or not. 



Reply #52 Top

I am sorry no one responded the first time you wrote this. I don't think it's worth implementation. Given the AI would need to learn how to use this, and there's only one guy I know of doing that, Emperor Brad Wardell of the Stardock Empire. And this would take alot of work for one guy. IMIO in my ignorant opinion.

 

DARCA

Reply #53 Top

Well we've heard that there are going to be specific resources in the game to wrest control of.  Endless Space does have specific resource requirements for higher-tech ship components.  If you don't have any of those resources then you still have access to the low-tech components.

Thing is though, I'm not sure that the AI will react well when the human player uses a strategy of resource denial and it then has to build low-tech ships.  I would prefer that they get the resources from an opportunistic third party and try to drive the player off its resources.

Reply #54 Top

Quoting MarvinKosh, reply 53
Thing is though, I'm not sure that the AI will react well when the human player uses a strategy of resource denial and it then has to build low-tech ships. I would prefer that they get the resources from an opportunistic third party and try to drive the player off its resources.

If they implemented a multiple-resource system like Sins (money, metal, crystals), they could also implement something like the black market. It's horribly inefficient but it gives any faction access to a resource they are missing at a stiff cost in the resources they have (selling metal to the market to get credits, using credits to buy crystals, etc.)

Reply #55 Top

I am about to post a article on this along with other topics.

if the black market was represented by pirates in the beginning of the game and disappeared when the pirates are wiped out. Pirates would spawn like everyone else to start the game, just to be clear. Would that be okay, that way there is no long term dependence and the game moves on...if you want.

DARCA

Reply #56 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 55

I am about to post a article on this along with other topics.

if the black market was represented by pirates in the beginning of the game and disappeared when the pirates are wiped out. Pirates would spawn like everyone else to start the game, just to be clear. Would that be okay, that way there is no long term dependence and the game moves on...if you want.

DARCA

It's necessary to the proper functioning of the game, so no. The whole point of it is that someone can't starve an empire by controlling only one resource - if I can take out your supply of crystal, the amount of money and metal you have would be irrelevant, since you couldn't do anything without crystal. The lack of an ability to convert one into the other would make a momentary advantage into a knockout blow - if you don't have much saved up, you can't build any new ships to take your supply back. Of course, it's a balance that needs to be hit properly; making resource attacks hurt without being an instant-win isn't always easy or obvious.

Reply #57 Top

Three things

First I would like to see a black market option. I will say this again you can't have a black market unless you are selling things illegal. Things that are illegal would be different for different factions. I would like to see this on the game. 

Second I like the pirate idea of pirates running the black market. This would also include captured cargo.

Third even though this would not be a black market. I think a market option for selling resources would be nice. I even think I should have an option not to sell this resource, or I want to make a profit off this. If a faction is selling resources their should be a profit for the resources being sold, and the faction buying the resource would have to pay a price. Also a faction should have a choice to cut this off if they want to.

Reply #58 Top

Interesting what frogboy said about the ai choosing from player designs,

Especially as i would tend to build ludicrous amounts of troop transports before even having half decent warships. Im sure the upkeep on these might change in this next game!

Reply #59 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 55

I am about to post a article on this along with other topics.

if the black market was represented by pirates in the beginning of the game and disappeared when the pirates are wiped out. Pirates would spawn like everyone else to start the game, just to be clear. Would that be okay, that way there is no long term dependence and the game moves on...if you want.

DARCA

 

I hadn't considered the black market concept ... thats additional programing and an entire faction design no doubt. 


To me ship building and controlling ship spamming is the main goal.  Buy adding assembly tech to the research tree, ships can only be built at the speed of tech level, not economic wealth.  Wealth would be measured in resources and cash to buy them, but ships can only be produced so fast regardless.   

Also, manufacturing really is a split technology.  Assembly and resource production being split changes the colony management concept.  

Do you go for assembly tech and economy and simply purchase resources... Do you go for resourse production and assembly , then sell your excess ....

It adds a new layer of stradegy.  

Also,  using resource starving is a legit way to attack an enemy,  it is happening today irl. 

 

 

Reply #60 Top

Okay well here's the thing.  Space is vast, so just because you park your ships on top of one main resource, doesn't mean there aren't secondary supplies.  It's just that they will take more credits to exploit that a primary source.

Reply #61 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 55

I am about to post a article on this along with other topics.

if the black market was represented by pirates in the beginning of the game and disappeared when the pirates are wiped out. Pirates would spawn like everyone else to start the game, just to be clear. Would that be okay, that way there is no long term dependence and the game moves on...if you want.

DARCA
Why do commodities , generic manufacturing supplies, metals, crystals, ect.  need to be bought and sold only on a 'Black Market' 

Why not have a wonder for a 'commodities exchange'   build the wonder and every civ er. race can buy or sell and the host nation gets an economic boost.  


Hence, ship construction time is based on assembly and ship yard technology ... resource availability is based on factory output ...

To counter the strategy of resource starving,  have generic building materials be available to every planet, where some planets have a higher resource output than others, but basic materials can't be choked completely out crippling ship building.  

Special resources and the planets that contain them would be strategic and therefore something to fight for.   

Reply #62 Top

General market where everyone goes to sell their goods works. I think the black market is corruption that you build in some else's territory where their corruption come's in as your commerce. This could be added to espionage. Another idea for a general market it could be small wonders that if you build them they  would be connected to the other one's this could also be done through diplomacy. This could also be an galactic council option that can be voted on. This could be an option for alliance or economic treaties. Lets not forget about pirates could also have this option. These could also be trade goods for the ones who don't have these resources until you get the resource on the map. The option I'm talking is about aquiring strategic resources you can't get when someone choked you out by aqiuring all the strategic resources of one type.

Reply #63 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 62

General market where everyone goes to sell their goods works. I think the black market is corruption that you build in some else's territory where their corruption come's in as your commerce. This could be added to espionage. Another idea for a general market it could be small wonders that if you build them they  would be connected to the other one's this could also be done through diplomacy. This could also be an galactic council option that can be voted on. This could be an option for alliance or economic treaties. Lets not forget about pirates could also have this option. These could also be trade goods for the ones who don't have these resources until you get the resource on the map. The option I'm talking is about aquiring strategic resources you can't get when someone choked you out by aqiuring all the strategic resources of one type.

Excellent,  the Black Market concept could be use for hostile or enemy races and allied or neutral races would be included in the general market ... trade agreements could be forged to lower tariffs, and prices .. ect. 

Reply #64 Top

Quoting Woolfsmck, reply 61
To counter the strategy of resource starving,  have generic building materials be available to every planet, where some planets have a higher resource output than others, but basic materials can't be choked completely out crippling ship building.  

Special resources and the planets that contain them would be strategic and therefore something to fight for.   

It's been a while since I played it, but in Birth of the Federation, dilithium was a key resource in ship production, and if I recall correctly, not every planet could be mined for dilithium.  If you played as the Romulan Star Empire though, you could build a singularity plant.