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Events, and Mega Events in GC3?

Events, and Mega Events in GC3?

In reading responses to the post on my Gameranx Interview i was surprised to see the one thing that got people talking was my comments on Random Events. Which got me thinking, this is something people feel strongly about.

GC2 Events, and Mega Events, in particular are something players either love or hate, I have read countless post where people praise them for keeping the game interesting, and many more were people claim they break the game completely, causing countless reloads.

My questions are:

What are your favorite Events?

What least favorite Events? (The ones you hate!)

What Events would you like to see in GC3?

196,817 views 59 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting JPowell, reply 25
Hopefully, random events will be more balanced in GCIII.

Gets my vote - they MUST make sense and be balanced. Staring at literally hundreds of silly orange blobs tossed in by Jagged Knife instantaineously - and the realisation I got to plough through, very tediously, one by one to get rid of the stupid things - had me reaching for the new game switch and cursing myself I had forgotten to turn off Events.

To have the "known universe" suddenly fill up "the next turn" with hundreds of the silly things, was so far out of wack with any kind of logic - even stretched fantasy logic - it was an instant turn off for me. It meant I lost out by not having the other events by turning off "Jagged Brain" - but it was a price worth paying from my point of view.

We all have our "line in the sand" - Jagged Knife was mine \o/

Reply #27 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 16

But in GalCiv III, the events are XML driven (ala Elemental). Heck, that also means modders can add their own events and it means that events can have a severity scale which means they can be hooked up to a setting UI.

I'm very glad to hear this as I really like the Elemental events. In particular, I like the plague one where there are three solutions, at least one of which spawns a quest. More ways for the player to engage with the event and take different aproaches are always good.

I also think that the event that spawns skeleton armies across the map is a much better take on the Mega-Pirates/Peacekeepers sort of event - the skeletons are strong-ish but still manageable when they spawn, but those you don't kill quickly tend to mob up with other monsters and stay a threat. I prefer this to the "everything gets destroyed and you have to turtle for a decade or two" nature of the GalCiv II events, which is fun once or twice but can also be just annoying. Those that spawn a single powerful monster are also neat and add a twist to the game without derailing it; I think they would translate to GalCiv fairly easily (e.g. giant trogg smashing things with a giant sword becomes space hulk full of ravening aliens heading for one of your worlds).

Favourite Events: Aside from the Elemental ones mentioned above, the Dreadlords, the plague and the telenanth for ones that add a twist, and the new faction type ones for potential game-derailers (with the JK being sometimes gamebreaking but also often quite fun). The assassination/war event. Also the deceptively small things like changes of alignment and discovering new ships.

Least Favourite Events: The slowdown (on larger maps), Mega-Pirates and Peacekeepers (almost always). All these could be implemented in such a way as to be actually fun, however. Spypocalypse, which is just horrible.

Events I'd Like to See:

Discovery of a stable wormhole between two distant empires (grew up on Deep Space Nine) and/or a region of space becoming harder to cross - either way, suddenly it's easier or harder to reach your friends/allies. Particularly if the diplomatic relations system is sophisticated enough to take into account that suddenly the Federation and Dominion are neighbours, and the AI appreciates the strategic importance of a shortcut.

New major race shows up. A proper major race who's on more-or-less equal footing in terms of AI capabilities.

The privateers: A privateer captain who will (for a price) harass enemy ships - but who can just as easily change sides.

The extremists: A section of your fleet mutinies and attacks a enemy with whom you have poor relations. Do you hunt them down (e.g. seek and destroy ships with the capabilities of your own fleets) or support them and officially declare war? Or prevaricate and risk the other empire launching retaliatory strikes? From what I read about the background of GalCiv III, there may be an element of this in the campaign, it would be cool to see it in sandbox games too.

The Second Foundation: The Drath weren't wiped out, they were just hiding. Now they're steering events to their own ends from behind the scenes. You can try to get on with things, or you can seek out their new hiding place - but if you do the latter, be assured they'll do all they can to stop you.

Not sure how practical all these suggestions are, but I don'e think any would be impossible to code in some form, if not necessarily exactly as described here.

Quoting NitroX, reply 17
But what's the possibility for events that give side-missions?

Hopefully very likely - there's already a good system in place in Elemental, just replace "an old inn" with "a seedy cantina" and "old ruins" with "an abandoned space station" and have them pop up from time to time.

Reply #28 Top

It would certainly be nice if we had "intelligent events"; events that happen or are based on the game's current political situation.

Reply #29 Top

Overall I'm a massive random event fan, but I agree with several other posts that some from GC2 are better than others.

 

What makes a good event for me is one that creates an imbalance, or enforces a change in strategy, rather than one that evenly inhibits all players without fundamentally changing anything. The one that slows all travel down is a good example of what to avoid (it's just about the worst one), because by slowing ships down it slows the game down and doesn't really change anything else (and is thus just really annoying).

 

What I would also like to see included (this may already be in GC2 but I'm not sure) is events that only occur after a certain point in a game, or rather can't be initiated until a certain point in development. The reason is that powerful events that occur early in the game, especially ones that give a certain player a major advantage, are OP to the point of insanity if other players aren't strong enough to counter them. In my current game I was busy fighting an early game conflict with the Korath mainly involving small scale fighter fleets, when they get themselves a Ranger ship. If this was later in the game I might have a chance to counter this, but when you're fighting with single digit attack and defence there is nothing you can do.

 

As an aside, one reason I love random events is the uniqueness they give to each game (ergo replayability). So one thing I would love is if you have so many events you often get ones you've never had before. While I know you will have plans for lots and lots and lots of random events, one thing you could do is create them so that they each themselves have duplications or similar versions (only really a scriptwriter job), and when that event is triggered it picks a random version of it.

 

Before anyone shoots me, I don't mean 'just do lots of clones and don't bother with variety', I mean 'do lots and lots of awesome events then get one of your writers do create loads of different versions of them'.

Reply #30 Top

There definitely needs to be a few types of event "timelines":

 

1) The full-on at a moment's notice, effects go from 0-100% in a single turn.  Then turn off in a single turn at some future date (if it's not a permanent change to the galaxy).

 

2) Events that ramp up in a linear fashion over N turns.  Then wind down in a linear fashion over N turns.  (N should be a random range.)

 

3) Events where the ramp-up values, full-strength values, and ramp-down values describe a range and not a fixed amount.  Within that min/max range, the actual effect is a random walk up/down so the effect gets stronger/weaker over multiple turns in random fashion.

 

Key concepts here would be:

 

- The start / active / shutdown phases should be defined as min/max pairs of values instead of a singular value (four pairs of values, the starting value, the values at the start of the active phase, the values at the end of the active phase, and the ending values).

- Within a phase, the modder can choose between random pick (not paying attention to the previous turn's value) or random walk (increment/decrement the previous turn's value by up to N%).

- Phase lengths should be a range, not a fixed number of turns.

 

This would allow for slow-burning events which last for 75-100 turns, take 10-20 turns to ramp up, and random walk between 75% and 125% of the goal effect value, then taper off over an additional 30-50 turns.

 

Reply #31 Top

One of the best features of Stardock games is that there are a lot of different ways to play them. We are not limited by the developer's vision for the game. That's one reason why I continue to enjoy GalCiv II after 6 years. I understand why random events were added - generally you reach a point in mid game where the outcome is 100% predictable and the question becomes, do I push the turn button a few hundred more times to confirm my prediction or abandon the game and start over. Random events turn a guaranteed win into a struggle for survival. I do believe they need to be more granular - those of us who prefer a non-military style of play should have the option to be presented with random challenges that have a non-military solution. For my enjoyment, random events need to be solvable, though the solution shouldn't be obvious.

People play games to have fun. Sometimes you want to be deeply engaged, other times you simply want a relaxing alternative to TV. A good game will accommodate both styles of play as long as the developers recognize the need when deciding which parameters to expose in the options.

I would like to see an invasion fleet from another galaxy that requires an alliance among the game races to defeat. Not sure if the AI has reached the level where something like this would be practical but it would be fun to play!

 

Reply #32 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 16
There's going to be a lot more events in GalCiv III than GalCiv II.  However, i suspect there will be more player control (at the beginning of the game) in terms of their frequency and power.

I don't know if you guys knew this but in GalCiv II I hard-coded the events in C++.  Or in other words, I'm an idiot.  It meant that each event was very labor intensive and there was no real granularity in them.  You could either have them or not.

But in GalCiv III, the events are XML driven (ala Elemental). Heck, that also means modders can add their own events and it means that events can have a severity scale which means they can be hooked up to a setting UI.

So long as you also have the option of turning them off as well as tuning the severity please.

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 16
But in GalCiv III, the events are XML driven (ala Elemental). Heck, that also means modders can add their own events and it means that events can have a severity scale which means they can be hooked up to a setting UI.

This is maybe the best thing I've heard about GalCiv III yet. I've literally been waiting my entire life for a game with easily-moddable random events.

Reply #34 Top

I played 10 games in a row, and in all of them the dread lords appears at early game. I feel the mega events taking a dump on me recently as I have incredibly awful luck. I needed to race to a planet to reclaim it, and the space tear made that impossible, thus losing me another game. Seriously even as much as I love mega events, but at the same time I "dread" them if you know what I mean. This is what happens when the dread lords shows up 10 times early game in a row like the game is saying fuck you, your too good for this game. So then it became a habit of me slaying dread lords every fn game I come across, and I am sick of doing the same cleanup job over and over and over again.

Well guess what, I had 25% extra luck from my party and another 25% extra luck from my race. Well guess what, that didn't stop the dread lords and I never got a free extra ship to help me defend against them.

 

Reply #35 Top

Mega Events only occur when everything is candy and lollipops. They don't seem to appear when everybody (except me) is at war (thanks to me).

The other day saw a funny one (never seen it before) giving to the Iconian sector's uncolonized planets (and those in sectors around the iconian one) a raise of 9 in PQ. Let's say that I got lots of planets, including two in the Iconian solar system. Not sure if mega event or not but the effect was certainly "Wow!".

Earlier in that same game, the Terrans (iconian's and mine neighbours) got a Precursor Ranger (being weak as they were, the ship was huuuuuge). I think this is a regular event? I incited them to attack the Korath but as they didn't use the Ranger for it, I just bought it from them.  :borg:  

Reply #36 Top

I hate those large christmas-tree ships.

The only time I've ever received one it was fairly weak. Every other time it was some other civ and the damned thing was op.

Reply #37 Top

How about events that are connected? One mega-event and then one or more smaller ones that would follow, all based on the decisions made from the prior ones.

That may offer a way to ease in significant changes. Could also allow, say, big advances in a soldier bonus and then after a possibility for larger expenditure to take care of returning soldiers, or not. And then an increase in medical (growth) or happy counters, but if declined earlier could result in a small increase in military (since they would stay in more often), etc.

Pretty much, I want ya'll to create for me a Choose Your Own Adventure book so I can relive my childhood. Can ya do that for me? :P

Reply #38 Top

This discussion about the Precursor Ranger brings to mind the one change to the system that I think is absolutely necessary: a clearer distinction between ordinary random events and mega events. Some of the "ordinary" events are pretty game-altering, while some of the mega events aren't that significant.

Reply #39 Top

Yea, the biggest problem with hard-coded events (like in GalCiv II) is that there wasn't a lot of oversight.

It was literally just me, up at 2am on some weekend cranking out these events in c++.  With XML driven events (in GalCiv III) people can look at them all and give feedback.

Reply #40 Top

So if I send ya a box o' doughnuts will that help ya pull the same hours to do my bidding on GalCiv3?

Reply #41 Top

Quoting Zydor, reply 3


In Winter of 1944, there was a massive surprise attack by the Germans through the Ardennes Forrest, along the tactical Boundary between the Americans and British, with the main line of attack through a weak American Infantry Division in the Ardennes Forrest (it was there as a "rest" area, no one thought the Germans could mount a Strategic Offensive through such thick forest). It became known as "The Battle of the Bulge"..... and it nearly succeeded in smashing the Allied armies in Western Europe. It took some nifty work by General Pattern in the South, and General Montgomery in the North to counter-attack and throw them back whilst the infamous 101st US Airborne Division held Bastogne in the main line of the German Advance, totally surrounded and outgunned - the 101st did a great job holding out. The weather cleared after 5 days, which unleashed the Allied Air Forces. Pattern and Montgomery counter-attacked - and the Germans were beaten back, but it was a close run thing. All in all it took a month of hard fighting to turn things around.

That was WW2's Jagged Knife on the Western Front.

Now .... lets not go down the historical route mimicking blah blah ..... thats not the point. The point is the developer inspiration that can be attained from these kind of historical actions can be considerable.

In a GalCiv context, The Battle of the Bulge (aka WW2) was their Jagged Knife.

The Jagged knife is a collection of a mixture scattered planets of different broke third world spwcies into one nation. How is this the German last ditch offensive.

Reply #42 Top

Now that I think about it, at least part of the issue with the Precursor Ranger is probably specific to TOA. It was upgraded to use similar stats as the rest of the Arnorian ships introduced for the campaign, without the event itself being altered, so it was as likely to appear as ever but was much more game-breaking. I'm pretty sure the Precursor Ranger in DL and DA used the same (much weaker) stock "Ranger" ship type as the Lucky Ranger.

Reply #43 Top

Mega events I really thought brought personality to the game. They r just there. Never seen any that could lay me out except in the beginning where I used to rely on a financial event, so not getting one was detrimental. The mega events I like the best are the ones that boost research, morale, economy or taxes. I like mega events that strengthen my oppenents, I like precursor ships. I like the dread lords mega event because this way I'm strong enough to deal with them. If I can confiscate ships or set pirates go for money I like money. I like miniturization. If I don't care about mega events then I can't say I hate them. I would like to see an Ai that knows how to deal with them better.I

I would like to see the pirates on the regular game.

I would like to see the rebellions. I would like to see a major race added. I would like to see a map expansion as a mega event. I I would like to see techs open up. I would like to see a cybernetic technology created that changes the race into cyborgs this is better if they were no human or Altarian. So they look like have machine and half alien. Please make the graohics for this it would be cool to see. I would like to see a whole race change because they were taken over by parasites like the Trill in startrek. I would like to see a dimensional gate open up with an invasion force where U got to talk to them and make peace or go over there and whoop them.An invasion force from another galaxie. A race that has evolved from another race. Machines that r turning on another race like terminator.

Zombie apocalypse. Maybe where people withdraw from the Galactic council or where some start their own Galactic councils. Maybe where the Krynn turn into real Jihadists and exterminate anyone who don't follow the way of Krynn where this becomes an option for everyone to research.

There is one thing I don't like, and that's an Ai that don't know how to play a super big empire like the Jagged knife. They should be modifying their planets for economics. Even building economics superprojects, This may mean that they will have to tear down some buildings. The other players will be upset for them taking their planets, That means they will have to gear up for a war that requires them to have planetary invasion.

Reply #44 Top

The events could potentially improve if they make these events have more noticeable impacts but also have a bit more thought put into them. Also I believe that non of these events should be carved in stone like that space rip that slows everybody down for the rest of the game.

Reply #45 Top

Quoting JPowell, reply 25

My desires regarding events, and especially mega-events is how they are implemented rather than specific monsters/disasters/discoveries: make sure that they apply to both the live players and the AI. 

 

In GCII (and GC) too many times the mega-event was detrimental to the live player, and often was of such severity that it ended the game.  Space monsters and pirates were often unstoppable, and targeted only the live player.  Given that the events were random, too often the devastating events occurred when the live player was still struggling with the AI (that's right, I didn't find the AI a walk-over) and effectively ended the game.

I for one never had a problem with this targeting me, just kept the game going longer, and usually did effect the AI in one way or another as well, was not specifically my problem.  If the Dread Lords appeared, they stuck to their 1 planet until it became profitable, by then I had forces that could match up with them and never became a real threat either.

Quoting JPowell, reply 25

In GCII, a precursor "Ranger" would be discovered by a side (live or AI) that was struggling at the time.  However, the Rangers found by the AI were normally 10X the strength of those discovered by live players, and often were stronger than any fleet the live player could field. 

Rangers I find appear to be random and sometimes appear near no enemies others on planets close by, as your just discovering them, no complaint here.  Also the AI could upgrade them just like you could (with the proper technology of course) and make them as strong/weak as you wanted.  Also keep in mind that the more military resources you have the higher the bonus as well.

Quoting JPowell, reply 25

The result was I often disabled the mega events to avoid such sudden game-ending occurrences.  Hopefully, random events will be more balanced in GCIII. 

Never have had an issue here, sorry love random events, never start a game without them :)

Reply #46 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 16

There's going to be a lot more events in GalCiv III than GalCiv II.  However, i suspect there will be more player control (at the beginning of the game) in terms of their frequency and power.

I don't know if you guys knew this but in GalCiv II I hard-coded the events in C++.  Or in other words, I'm an idiot.  It meant that each event was very labor intensive and there was no real granularity in them.  You could either have them or not.

But in GalCiv III, the events are XML driven (ala Elemental). Heck, that also means modders can add their own events and it means that events can have a severity scale which means they can be hooked up to a setting UI.

Well, this is great news for the GC III community, I guess the programmers for this game got that much better... This means better game design and a improvement over galactic civilizations II. Thank you Frogboy for showing the community that you have improved as a developer and that you are going to make a great game. :grin:

Reply #47 Top

Ok, next thing is what pisses me off is when you research good and evil and your random events are reduced to nothing unless you colonize new worlds. Please make these random events occur regardless of technology. I just found it stupid that you needed to research good and evil before nothing happens in the universe.

Reply #48 Top

One issue that should be considered in GC3 is to make sure that Mega-Events scale with galaxy size / number of habitable planets.  For the little stuff like the Ranger ship, this already happens because it's a percent change for every anomaly explored and there are simply more anomalies in larger galaxies.

 

For the other mega-events, I would hope that some thought is given to being able to scale their impact based on galaxy size (or better, # of habitable planets -- as it may be a "sparse" galaxy with very few stars/planets).

 

I like the mega-events.  I got bitten by Jagged Knife last game where they seized 8 or 9 planets in the galaxy -- and five of them were mine.  This forced me to change course and go military research until I could contain them and then take back my planets.  (After which, I started preying on the weaker civs, which was not my original plan for that game.  But hey, I now had the transports lying around.)

Reply #49 Top

Only major events happens when you turn them on too. I love random events.

Just a tip in design, maybe just make The __________ has had ________ in ________.  (each blank would insert a random word that would effect specific variables). Sort o like skeletons for one sentence to produce 100 different scenarios with random word generation for each blank.

Also have multiple strings so that the the player cannot tell the difference that you are using such a scheme.

If players were to make random events, that might be a good feature until somebody makes crappy contributions.

***edit***

Note: The example provided above is a bad example, perhaps you can build sentences better then a guy who forgot to put an f at the end of o

Reply #50 Top

Quoting wuphonsreach, reply 48
For the little stuff like the Ranger ship, this already happens because it's a percent change for every anomaly explored and there are simply more anomalies in larger galaxies.

Anomalies have nothing to do with your chance of getting a Ranger. It only depends on how strong your military is. The weaker you are, the higher the chance of getting a Lucky Ranger, a Precursor Ranger, or a bunch of Precursor Corvettes.