Suggestions for balancing Run-Away AIs

from Elemental Forums

In most of my games (always play with 10 civs, huge map) it seems as though one or two AIs end up with 12 or more cities while most AIs have 3 cities. I'm not talking about late game, this usually happens quite early. So very early in my campaigns, about 80% of the AIs are almost certainly out of the race for a victory.

To deal with run-away AIs (which is a problem in most 4X strategy games), I'm wondering if maybe the unrest penalty from number of cities should be increased from 3 per city to 4 per city. Expanding would still be advantageous, but at least smaller civs could be more competitive in science and production against the AI civs that grow to be double or triple their size.

What do you think? Any other suggestions for controlling run-away AIs and making comebacks by smaller civs more possible?

also: where can I find the file to make this change so that I can test it?

Thanks in advance    

14,686 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

There's runaways in this game? I moved up to hard difficulty and I still haven't seen one.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I've been searching for a way to increase the unrest penalty for number of cities from 3-per-city to 4-per-city. I've been searching through the files under "data/English" -but no luck. Does anyone know the name of the appropriate file? Should be a very simple change. Thanks in advance

Elemental: Reforged
Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 3

Quoting MechaGodzill, reply 2
I've been searching for a way to increase the unrest penalty for number of cities from 3-per-city to 4-per-city. I've been searching through the files under "data/English" -but no luck. Does anyone know the name of the appropriate file? Should be a very simple change. Thanks in advance

 

ElementalDefs.xml

<CityCountUnrestPenalty>3</CityCountUnrestPenalty>




 

Thanks!

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Do I need to begin a new game for this to take effect? I doesn't seem to have effected my current campaign. Thanks in advance

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

All game related XML data is stored in the savegame, so yes, you do have to begin a new game for changes to take effect.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting StevenAus, reply 6

All game related XML data is stored in the savegame, so yes, you do have to begin a new game for changes to take effect.

Thanks

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Interesting idea. Be sure to let us know how it works out.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting coyote303, reply 8

Interesting idea. Be sure to let us know how it works out.

I will. Do you have any other suggestions that might help balance the AI's number of cities relative to each other? or just anything which could help with run-away AIs? Any changes I make, I'll have to make prior to starting (can't mod in mid-game). Thanks in advance

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 10

Increasing the AI intelligence might just do it... Have you tried the higher levels?

I've been playing on expert. How do you think that increasing the difficulty to ridiculous might help balance the number of AI cities relative to each other? Thanks in advance.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Make sure that the AIs are the same level.   I've noticed if I customize my opponents, because I really don't want to run into some factions I've created sometimes, that sometimes when I add AIs they default to easier AIs so the AIs end up a mix of harder difficulty and easier difficulty.   In that case, the easier ones will definitely be outclassed quickly.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

So, there are several different AI personalities. One such personality is called Expansionist where these AI try and expand their empire as much as possible. Other personalities follow the more turtle mentality. What one suggests here is how should the AI function in a more general setting. Another mod option is to remove the Expansionist personality (I don't know if this is possible from the XML) Increasing the unrest will not stop the expansionists from expanding like they do, but then i don't know the exact code that the AI is considering when expanding under that personality.

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 13

Quoting MechaGodzill, reply 11

I've been playing on expert. How do you think that increasing the difficulty to ridiculous might help balance the number of AI cities relative to each other? Thanks in advance.

 

LOL, someone is edgy! You're welcome.





I think that maybe my current campaign has been somewhat of a fluke. When I first met the Resoln, they had three cities -but they were at war with all three civs they had met (this was very early in my game). The Pariden quickly took two of the Resoln's cities. I guess the Pariden's ability to quickly establish outpost helped in their quick rise. The Pariden now have 12 cities, while the next highest AI (out of 9 AIs) has only four. I know that more cities doesn't always equate to more success, as sometimes civs with less cities will have more population; but when the closest AI has only a third of the top AI's cities, it's difficult to stay competitive.

Maybe this 4 per-city unrest penalty will make a difference. I've also thought about maybe making pioneers cost a little more population, but I think I'll wait a while before considering that.

 

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Primal_Savage, reply 16

The reason I was suggesting to up the difficulty level was simply that an AI with more resources will likely expand more. So you could up AI intelligence to Ridiculous (For the AI you feel aren't expanding enough) and let the other AI with the same intelligence (Expert). It seems to me that magic AI have more problem winning/expanding (Except Pariden) than war AI. Something to consider if you select the AIs you play against. Finally, if you want to stifle expansion, choose the upper limit of players for a specific map size.




Quoting MechaGodzill, reply 15

...I know that more cities doesn't always equate to more success, as sometimes civs with less cities will have more population; but when the closest AI has only a third of the top AI's cities, it's difficult to stay competitive.

Maybe this 4 per-city unrest penalty will make a difference. I've also thought about maybe making pioneers cost a little more population, but I think I'll wait a while before considering that.

 

 

Exactly. In my current game

AI #1: 8 cities 5223 Pop 1299 Score

AI #2: 17 cities 1622 Pop 344 Score

AI #3: 3 cities 722 Pop 149 Score

Now, #3 is all but dead. However, #1 (compared to #2) has 50% cities yet 300% population and close to 400% score and is much stronger than AI #2.

Thanks. I'm about to start a new game and I think I'll give ridiculous a try; along with the 4-per-city unrest penalty

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I think this (Run-Away AIs) is not the problem. Lots of AIs are like seeds thrown to the ground - some are lucky, some are not. Their main purpose is not to grow equal all but, only few of them should be equal to human player to make the competition.