Weapon Damages

While the weapon calculation formulas are known within the game I am not sure if I agree to how it is being applied.  There are 5 main number of factors on how effective (damaging) a weapon is against any general object.  Some armors protect better against different damage types but that is not the point of this discussion.  Here are the main things that should be considered when weapon damages are calculated.

1. Design

   - The ultimate design of a weapon determines how effectively the force applied from a person is applied to the point, edge, or surface being used as an attack point.  So compare a short sword to a two handed sword and you can see that the design (weight disbursement and effective area to force ratio for the edge) is heavily weighted for the two handed sword to do more damage.

2.  Material

   - The race for arms was heavily dependent upon materials.  Hence when bronze short swords were met with iron swords the bronze ones shattered and many battles were won by superior materials.

3.  Skill

   - Compare the amount of damage a student swordsman can do compared to a master swordsman with the same weapon, it is a night and day comparison.

4.  Strength

   - Once all factors above are equal strength can be applied to add additional damage if enough strength to effectively wield a weapon are already met.

5.  Magic

   - This is the only one that doesn't exist in the real world but could almost be applied to the materials bonus as it just further enhances the base weapon not the external factors applied to the weapon except there are also external magical buffs that can boost weapon damages.

 

This is not a comparison of weapon speeds or the effect of speed within the game but simply a quick look into weapon damages and things to consider when calculating them.

17,963 views 7 replies
Reply #1 Top

You forgot three things:

  1. The probability of accidentally slipping on a banana due to awkward weapon size.
  2. A suggestion of how to implement such damage calculations
  3. An explanation of what this would add to the game, aside from a nearly invisible layer of unneeded realism.
Reply #2 Top

Quoting Sythion, reply 1

You forgot three things:


The probability of accidentally slipping on a banana due to awkward weapon size.
A suggestion of how to implement such damage calculations
An explanation of what this would add to the game, aside from a nearly invisible layer of unneeded realism.

Sarcasm aide this was a brief synopsis of the basics of what you could consider when designing traits to constrain different weapons along with the traits to go with those weapons.  Right now we lost some of the ability to differentiate weapon damages versus armor types and with that loss the ability to increase damage for a specific weapon type, read this as the ability to reflect weapon skill.  So a highly skilled master or someone with several traits would be able to do a multiplier damage for swords whereas someone who is just trained would get less out of it which would reflect your general troops.  Materials could be reflected by adding new materials into the game or re-adding old ones such as Elementium or refinement to add high grade stainless steel.  Each of these materials could add a damage bonus without having to resort to magic.  Magic would then be used as the final way to add a last bonus when all other options have been exhausted.

So for a simple short sword lets start with the base damage plus modifiers.

Base Damage                                      6

Material (Steel)                                    1

Strength (Bonus to melee attack value)  2

Weak magical enchantment                   1(Changes the weapon damage to magical slashing so it can hit banshees and other normal weapon immune creatures)

Expert Swordsman (2 steps abovestudent)+50%

Total                                                   (6+1+2+1)*150% = 15

The weapon damage for a trained unit it would have an attack value of at most 10.  Melee champions can also boost their base attack bonus further beyond initial training making them much stronger and more deadly.  Combine this with a minor overpower effect at master skill level and this might be a better way to even melee champions versus melee troops.

Reply #3 Top

...?

That has absolutely nothing to do with weapon or armor differentiation.

The only thing you have actually suggested is the ability to specialize, which warriors can already do (albeit lamely, just like all champions but mages do things lamely), and which is completely pointless with the current trait system.

 

Why would the development team waste hundreds of hours redesigning this system and possibly destabilizing others just to allow you to make better swordsmen? Why not just mod the game, and add a trait that does this?

Reply #4 Top


2.  Material

   - The race for arms was heavily dependent upon materials.  Hence when bronze short swords were met with iron swords the bronze ones shattered and many battles were won by superior materials.

3.  Skill

   - Compare the amount of damage a student swordsman can do compared to a master swordsman with the same weapon, it is a night and day comparison.

Just a couple of history facts: The switch from bronze to iron swords was because of a tin shortage not superior materials. Iron was more readily available, the "expensive" swords were still bronze, and nobles etc. still used bronze swords. It was not until steel techniques "iron" became better. 

Also the Romans beg to differ. Discipline is the key to victory in army battles, not individual skill. They used something like a move forward, block and stab technique in army battles with short swords, not exactly much room for individual skill there. You've been watching too many movies, battles were rarely like that.

Not that I agree with your arguments, but if you want to use real life history facts for your reasonings, at least get your facts straight ;)

 

 

Reply #5 Top

In terms of watching movies, I still think one of the funniest examples is Braveheart. The climactic battle is supposed to be the Battle of Stirling Bridge, which was fought by Scottish spearmen defending a bridge which was too narrow for more than two horseman to advance at once. Do you remember all those Scottish spearmen advancing in formation to attack the English forces which had been split in two by the bridge, with the result that the the troops who had crossed over the river were overwhelmed? No, I didn't think so.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting sjaminei, reply 4


quoting post
2.  Material

   - The race for arms was heavily dependent upon materials.  Hence when bronze short swords were met with iron swords the bronze ones shattered and many battles were won by superior materials.

3.  Skill

   - Compare the amount of damage a student swordsman can do compared to a master swordsman with the same weapon, it is a night and day comparison.




Just a couple of history facts: The switch from bronze to iron swords was because of a tin shortage not superior materials. Iron was more readily available, the "expensive" swords were still bronze, and nobles etc. still used bronze swords. It was not until steel techniques "iron" became better. 

Also the Romans beg to differ. Discipline is the key to victory in army battles, not individual skill. They used something like a move forward, block and stab technique in army battles with short swords, not exactly much room for individual skill there. You've been watching too many movies, battles were rarely like that.

Not that I agree with your arguments, but if you want to use real life history facts for your reasonings, at least get your facts straight

 

 

For the materials portion, that contradicts what I have read and researched, but I have been wrong before and that I can concede if true.  For the skill portion I am referring to individual skill versus squad on squad attack styles.  Two completely different attack styles as one is about not getting hit yourself while the other is about attacking while not opening yourself or your squad mate to attack.  Individuals can in general do more damage as they have more options for maneuverability and openings for attack whereas unit style attacking is just as you described almost mechanized in how it was done with minor variations for simple blocks, parries, and attacks of opportunity when an opening is available within their small attack radius.

Quoting merlinme, reply 5

In terms of watching movies, I still think one of the funniest examples is Braveheart. The climactic battle is supposed to be the Battle of Stirling Bridge, which was fought by Scottish spearmen defending a bridge which was too narrow for more than two horseman to advance at once. Do you remember all those Scottish spearmen advancing in formation to attack the English forces which had been split in two by the bridge, with the result that the the troops who had crossed over the river were overwhelmed? No, I didn't think so.

Not entirely sure what your point is here.