After all the advice on playing this game i finally did it

I guess the party is over for me. I spent the money on the "new" game and started playing.......OMG...what is the point? A legendary hero is not level 8. Once again the designers and coders have totally missed the concept of playing a game. Well after many years of trying and posting and trying and posting. I just quit. Stardock has got about 100 bucks out of me on this game and thats it. I really dont see any way of coming back from this. Apparently stardock can make space games but fantasy cant be done. I had also hoped for better from Kael. So to take everyones advice I quit. Eador and warlock will give me a fix for a while and then i will go back to playing fall from heaven. I am really sitting here thinking that i will miss this community and really miss the help that i have recieved from people at stardock, BUT it is time to go. so long

hound out

27,310 views 19 replies
Reply #1 Top

What is making your heroes stall out at level 8? I'd never advise to quit the game, I just look at the things that need to be improved and if I can do it myself, well then I'll do it. It's not that hard to delve into and create your own custom world that functions the exact way you want it to. For example, if it is just your heroes are not gaining enough XP, put in a spell that autocasts at every battle and gives you 2 to 3 times the XP than normal. That usually does the trick for those that want level 40 heroes. The concept of a level in the game is rather a different one of scale. A legendary hero doesn't have to be all that experienced, or even all that powerful. A legendary hero is at the right place at the right time with the right decision. But since you've decided to throw in the towel I guess there is nothing else for it but to say you'll miss out on some fun mods.

Reply #2 Top

No idea why you're having problems. Am currently in a game on a large map, just breaking out of my corner and making contact with neighbors in a more direct way, and my Sovereign is almost level 17, 2 other champions closing on 10, and the 4th is soon level 8.

 

Unless you play a tiny duel map warmonger approach, I have no idea how you could be level 8 and finish the game - oh wait I do, if you just tuck in a corner with 2-3 cities and focus on research and get an alliance with AI's and win by that, then you won't do much fighting :)

There are spells to increase your XP with no cap on how many heroes you have. How many epic battles did you have with your army? Did you do any of the area zones to clear them full and kill the boss as well? I had no problem wiping the swamp of most inhabitants, but I'll have to wait some more (and advance my techs / units) before I dare to tackle the boss of the area, his army has 1700 hp as a reference (no point to tell you their atk / def ratios or what spells they have / unit mix etc).

 

PS: except spellcasters who benefit from advancing further in levels to unlock new spells etc, rest of professions are carried by equipment more than any skills they can pick. Which is perfectly fine in world like Elementum where magic is supreme, and casters should be the top tier powerful and feared beings :)

Reply #3 Top

I've had sov (mages) leveling in the high 20's (and then victory screen).  I'm not sure what your experience has been that puts a ceiling above your sov at level 8?   Perhaps a review of your gaming style, or a saved game we all can look at, discuss, brainstorm with you.  (is that a spell?  Should be!) EH is not perfect, but I feel you are ditching your investment a tad prematurely. 

 

BTW, mage XP modifies (that stack):  25% initial mage selection side.  On 'general' side are three successively larger XP multipliers (which stack).  There are at least three items that also multiply XP earned.  A 'training' sword, a ring and the 'Tutelage' spell.  There are also books that grant experience to user.  Stationing a hero/sov in the adventurers guild adds a passive XP gain.  So does one (not all) blood's Arena.  Non mages have fewer XP modifiers, but the spell, destiny insight at 200 mana adds XP as well. 

Reply #4 Top

Yes, it is really easy to change this. I wouldn't quit the game because of it, especially before it is even released. When the game gets officially released there will be Steam workshop mods that address this elegantly for you. That is one of the great boons to moving everything to Steam, applying mods couldn't be easier (subscribe button).

Until then you could change the xml in the english folder, or mod properly from one of the guides in the modding forum (though if you don't program for a living xml is not something you probably want to spend a lot of time with). I personally detest taking +xp level ups that don't pay off for a dozen levels or more, or grinding lairs/quests, or scavenging every piece of equipment ect. Since I want that effect without the fun drain, I just give it to myself to start with. I usually mod some starting ability, like a weakness, based off of the general ability, which gives +xp% to stack. If you put that at 200 or 300 percent you can accomodate 3-4 heroes as if there was no split, and your sovereign gets quite a leg up in the meantime. You could also mod the tutelage spell to be whatever % you want it.

Reply #5 Top

Yep. Mages specifically get another 25% bonus xp since they are more reliant on their spells (be it to deal damage, summon durable minions, debuff / buff and control).

That does not mean other hero types can't get xp. IMHO is even faster since is easier to get better melee weapons and armor so you can deal damage and kill stuff and survive, and you're not so much reliant on troops (or minions) as a mage is.

For example in my current playthrough, huge map, ridiculous diff, playing Tarth with an Assassin (melee for now) Sovereign, I have all 3 xp skills from general tab and all Air mage skills (they help a melee tremendously plus you need a spell to be able to recall your troops in friendly teritory, can't rely on scrolls of teleport only), and just picked Dodge 2 from Assassin path. She's level 10, and her companion a pure healbot (spellcaster with only life spells and +50% healing, a bit of spell mastery, no bonus xp traits) is level 9 (he was first champion so started at lvl 1). Pretty much I didn't do much fighting at all except clearing when I could some lairs so I can settle / expand, no wars with other factions or treasure hunting / quests etc.

We just broke into mid of the research trees, I managed to expand quite a bit for a Kingdom faction (I have 3 conclaves, 3 fortresses, 3 towns, about 8 outposts to connect them and grab resources), am in 3rd place on faction power. As soon as I finish current research, I will be capable to give her 1 mage group and 1 group of archers, a solid defender group with maces (well hammers now) and 2 mounted axe chivalry. Company not groups. She should pretty much become an XP grinding machine and go on a lairs / treasure / quests hunt while I continue to develop and create troops in my fortresses (at least 3 full groups despite I only have 2 heroes available) and am good :)

Reply #7 Top

Slow your roll. You can't seriously be GBCW now. The game's not out of beta yet.

P. S. If you write stardock they will give you a refund. 

Reply #8 Top


They're two weeks from release, SBM.

Reply #9 Top


After a lot of testing, this is the setup I've found that works best for maximising the level of your sovereign and a couple of heroes. As it's Altar, you also have the amazing Henchmen,, who can easily be the equal of most heroes, and make excellent Commanders, opening up more XP traits. And as mentioned above, if you're lucky enough to find the XP boosting items as loot, bonus.

Custom Faction: Altar, Master Scouts, Lucky, Quick, Enchanters, Rebels or No Ranged Weapons - Altar is the important part, the other traits are just too good not to use.

Custom Sovereign: General, Air1, Earth1, Brilliant, Tactician, Procipinee's Crown, Clumsy or Weak - You could replace Earth with any of the other schools that suit your style, I take Earth for early Enchanted Hammers, helps get those first troops out quickly. Tactician ties in with Lucky.

 

Choose the Mage path for your sovereign, take Knowledge as your first trait, then Air2 for Tutelage, then the 3 Potential traits. After that I might grab Earth2 for Tremor if I need it, otherwise beeline Air5 for Tornado, which equals win. From here you can develop whichever trait tree suits your style. Steal Fire from an early hero, or buy a spellbook from a faction with the Decalon. Build a custom faction of your alignment with both Decalon and Wanderlust for Spellbooks and Quest Maps to buddy up with and shop for extra cheese. A fully developed Fire/Air Evoker loaded with enchantments is a scary mofo.

 

General play tips: Play with dense everything, the highest difficulty level you can handle, and epic pacing. Build a couple of spearmen or militia units immediately to fill out your army, I prefer spears. Never stop fighting/exploring with your sovereign, and contiually add to and upgrade his army. Use one of your early heroes with a spell school you're lacking to defend your homeland, build an army for him ASAP. I rotate outdated units from my sovereign's force to this force. Add a third army when you can, with three armies and the teleport spells you should be able to respond to any problems. Getting Life5 on one of these secondary guys should be a priority for Crusade. Never group heroes together. Steal their spell traits if you don't need the hero. Design your own units to fit your play style and needs, imo the stock units are subpar. Tornado the stacks you can't handle, then let your henchmen and secondary heroes build their skills by slaughtering them. Leave lairs active as long as you can outside your borders, every spawn is a few more points of xp. I've gone to war to protect a good lair.

 

Using this approach I typically reach level 10 or higher by 75 turns into the game, and likely have my home turf cleared of bad guys. (Current game it's turn 117 and I'm almost level 13, with 4 level 7 spearmen as my main army. 5 settlements and all is peaceful on the homefront.) Late game my sovereign is in the 20s, with another couple of heroes around level 10 or so, plus several henchmen as well. Henchmen are typically leading my armies at this point, as I've likely stolen the spell traits from most of my heroes.

 

For the record, I'm still not a fan of the XP situation in the game currently, but it is something that can be dealt with if you set up your game accordingly. Frankly, the OP sounds as if he has an axe to grind, not sure how this game I have less than 40 bucks invested in could cost someone 100.

Reply #10 Top

There is no point to mod the game and got 2x, 3x the xp, because you can steam roll the map at lvl 8-10 with your OP units, without touching the fancy trait tree of the hero. (and the hero is useless anyway because of the swarm) In the other hand you need to be lvl 20 to reach the exciting traits, but my game always ended before it. The entire concept is wrong here.

I am off  to play eador where i got my challange and, where actually matters what do you do in the tactical battle. 

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Winnihym, reply 8
They're two weeks from release, SBM.

Exactly.  The game hasn't been released.  He's playing a beta.  People understand what that word means, right?

His complaint, the reason he's NEVER PLAYING THIS GAME HE SPENT 100 DOLLARS!?!@?!?@11 ON EVAR AGIN is literally "A legendary hero is not level 8"

Is that seriously why he's going to give up on a game that's not even out of beta?  Because the number 8 is offensive to him?

Is it too much to ask that darkehound wait two weeks before committing seppuku on the forums.  Or better, wait four weeks and play the released & patched version of the game?

Reply #12 Top

I often have trouble getting beyond lvl 12 by the end of the game, but that doesn't make it any less fun.

Reply #13 Top

How do you have that trouble :)

 

I'm level 15 now on my Sovereign and level 14 on her hero (both used in same army from start) and I just stepped into mid game (turn wise, research wise, exploration wise). Also sporting other 2 level 9 heroes and one level 7. When I get to 200 fame I'd prolly get a leveled one as well.

And there's still like 3/4 of lairs on map, all wilder lands are intact, loads of epic quests, and 9 AI's with bigger territories and higher faction power than mine, all waiting for me to come and grab it :)

Also got 4 events that spawn hard monsters on map, and those will keep coming :)

Reply #14 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 11


Quoting Winnihym, reply 8They're two weeks from release, SBM.

Exactly.  The game hasn't been released.  He's playing a beta.  People understand what that word means, right?

You are pulling a strawman here. Do you want to tell me that the game will be magically polished in just two weeks that remain to final release? I would bet 100$ against it. So far, there is a strong indication there is some memory allocation problem with the game, since it gets progressively slower and less responsive, and crashes every two hours or so. There may be a few bugfixes here and there, but by playing 0.87, you get a very good impression of how the finished game will look and feel. It was the same with FE, and with WOM too. 

By the way, do you know YOURSELF what beta means? In beta stage, product should be feature-complete, and the whole effort should be aimed towards removing bugs and optimization. The fact that radical changes to core gameplay mechanics are still being done indicates, that strictly speaking, the game is in fact in late ALPHA stage, and that the actual BETA stage will commence after the release - which is basically a standard procedure with games today. 

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Kamamura_CZ, reply 14

You are pulling a strawman here.

Do you know what a strawman is?

I'm not saying the OP doesn't get to be disappointed in the game for whatever reason he wants.

I am saying that his GBCW post is immature and worthy of scorn.  Doubly so because it's totally premature, since the game hasn't been released.

His only complaint has something to do with leveling champions being too hard (I guess?  We may never know).  Something that could easily change before the game is released.

Quoting Kamamura_CZ, reply 14
In beta stage, product should be feature-complete, and the whole effort should be aimed towards removing bugs and optimization.

Is that what it says in your Software Engineering textbook?  :\ Here in the real world, I have never encountered such a beast.  Especially in the form of a public beta of a game.  Betas are an environment where the developer gets free play-testing of their game before release for the purpose of testing ideas and seeing what works and what doesn't across a variety of play-styles and personalities.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 15

Is that what it says in your Software Engineering textbook?  Here in the real world, I have never encountered such a beast.  Especially in the form of a public beta of a game.  Betas are an environment where the developer gets free play-testing of their game before release for the purpose of testing ideas and seeing what works and what doesn't across a variety of play-styles and personalities.

I have a feeling that you don't get around much. OS development works like this, FreeBSD even has RELEASE, STABLE, and CURRENT branches, important software just has to provide sable builds for mission critical applications. Nobody will install your nightly patch you have hacked together yesterday, only to find his systems failing tomorrow. 

I hear you saying that games are a different story. Well, not exactly - take Wesnoth, for example, they provide Stable and Development branches, and the stability and polish of their game are nothing to joke about, as is the quality of documentation and modding support, they have a perfectly documented WML language that allows you to change every aspect of the game.

Same goes for OpenTTD, FreeCol, UfoAI, and other projects. AI wars use the same system.

BTW I know what strawman is, it's an expression for desperate arguments that often bends the facts, and it applies for your statement perfectly. Saying that "You play only a beta, omg, release will be completely different thing" 14 days before release is exactly that. 

Reply #18 Top

It must be one of those laws of internet forums that anyone decrying a strawman argument is bound to use a strawman argument. :rolleyes:

What I am doing might be called an ad hominum argument.  I am not debating the relative merits of darkehound's claim, I am making a direct attack on him personally.  Except I am not arguing anything.  I am making fun of him.  For being a whiny crybaby.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting sweatyboatman, reply 18

It must be one of those laws of internet forums that anyone decrying a strawman argument is bound to use a strawman argument.

What I am doing might be called an ad hominum argument.  I am not debating the relative merits of darkehound's claim, I am making a direct attack on him personally.  Except I am not arguing anything.  I am making fun of him.  For being a whiny crybaby.
  Couldn't the ad hominum argument also be a straw man set up?  [alert, preceding is an attempt at humor.]