Patch 1.3: has xp changed ?

Just played a game two days ago. Ended with a level 18, level 16, and level 10 leveled from 1-3. Both my mains had Potential II. Not sure if that will be helpful or not. 

Difficult to know. Depends on how one plays...

I strongly feel that the XP value has been lowered, and that my heroes have a hard time levelling up.

Still, I cannot be sure since I have no figures to back my feelings...

The penalty for multiple champions in a stack was increased. That might be it.

Have you found a way to present this through the UI yet?... pretty please with sugar on top

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

No. But I agree it would be a good thing to add. 

May I suggest some kind of XP count-up on the battle resolution screen, this would be a way to make a screen include the modifiers to XP, and meaby tell the player what monster gave which XP?

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

This may require redesigning the entire after battle report screen. Maybe change the font color for the xp red if there are negative modifiers and green if there are positive modifiers. When you hover over it you can get a summary on xp bonuses and penalties. 

Base 10

+ mod

25% Potential

- mod

50% 2 Champions

Total: 7.5 XP

Hmm, I might have an idea now for a mod

For the better, but yes I know that.
No need for a new "design" though, just re-coding the thing.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Since you guys know me and I know you, I feel comfortable talking about this plainly: An engineering hour is about $75.  And that doesn't count opportunity cost.  That's why a lot of the requests I see on the forums are tough to come through on even though I agree with them.

For example, multiplayer.  Multiplayer is something I actually am willing to spend the $$ on but I don't have enough network developers to work on it. They're on other games that absolutely need to have MP in them.  

Since I work on our games on weekends, I can implement some ideas because I can do them myself.  But this one I couldn't because it gets into the UI area of the game.

By contrast, when I read a post on someone saying they can win with a couple tanks and archers, that's something I can address since I know how to code that part of the game.

That's why on most forums you have some suppport people who tell you things like "I've let the team know, they like the idea and will see what they can do" which is them really saying "No, we're not going to do it because there's no budget but we don't want people to think we're not listening." because most of the time, the developers agree. They just don't have the time/budget available to address it. 

What I can say is that these kinds of reports make a bigger difference for FUTURE versions of the game.  There's going to be another full Elemental game after Legendary Heroes (i.e. a non-expansion pack) and that's where this kind of thing will show up.

New Elemental games make me happy

Yes but I would rather say it now, and fear repeating myself.
Than keep my silence and fear it will never be implemented, even in the future.
I did figure it to be a project with a little time behind it
(Don't think it would take ALL too long though, but whatever, all I wanted was the XP to count upwards, and then a number come up when there was an XP penalty)
I do know from experience that not all suggestions are implemented no matter how much heart you put into typing out the details. (Which is why I usually rarely go into details before asked)

~ K

I actually might get my feet wet and try modding my suggestion. Depends on how much time I have though between school, job, job search since my contract is almost up, wedding planning, and trying to make time to watch Maddjinn's Fallen Enchantress videos. 

I don't think you can mod the multi-heroes penalty to xp

~ K

No, nor would I want to personally, what I was saying is that I would try modding the battle report with scripts to display this information. However, not going to touch it till after legendary heroes comes out or at least the beta. Brad's build that he showed on the video had very different after battle report. 

And what precisely are the multi-hero XP penalties ?

Frogboy read my post! Really looking forward to the improvements. 

I've never had this explained to me. It seems like you somehow get less XP when multiple champions are in the same stack. But is it less than each champion would get leading it's own stack? I'm not sure I understand.

I generally find myself combining champions into one stack after taking out the weakest monsters, as they're just not powerful enough early on to go at something alone. So "splitting XP" or whatever it is, really doesn't affect my gameplay. not that I understand the effect in the first place.

Base XP is based on how many champions (henchmen, sions etc. don't count) there are in a winning battle.  One champion gives full experience.  Each additional champions reduces the amount of base experience.

Henchmen, Sions etc get champion XP, but they don't count as champions for XP splitting purposes.

Trained units/monsters that are not Henchmen or Sions get a percentage of the base XP.  So the more champions there are, the less the other troops get too because the base XP is already reduced, and other troops only get a fraction of base XP.

Not quite sure if defeated heroes get any experience (I don't think they do) and if the amount of champions at the start of a battle affects the XP received when winning, even if some champions get reduced to 0 HP in the interim.

I think when trained troops or henchmen/sions are in a battle without any proper champions, they get XP as if one champion was there (so henchmen/sions get full base XP, other troops get the fraction of full base XP).

Frogboy, is something like this feasible?

Can you make it so if an AI unit is attacking a unit, and they can attack another unit that has a high damage/defense ratio (maybe 0 defense would count as 1 defense to avoid dividing by zero) for whatever damage/defense it has to certain parts of the AI unit's attack (in other words, they do lots of damage and they are relatively squishy) OR there is a high-damage unit that is very low HP, and the attacking can get to that unit on the same turn, to disengage from the stronger unit and attack the squishy one?

Currently, if you can get a strong unit next to all the melee monsters, you can protect other units NOT adjacent to any monsters from getting attacked any more.  What would be a fabulous and welcome AI improvement would be to have the melee unit disengage the strong unit to attack the weak one, PROVIDED it can disengage from the stronger unit and attack the squishy unit on the same turn.

It would also be a good idea to take into account dodge values too.  Given similar damage/defense ratios or low HP status, the AI should attack the one with lowest dodge value.

This may also be related to the way tanks and archers effectiveness issue.

And special rules for elemental resistance:

Also, can you make it so that if a sole unit has 95% or more fire resistance, the AI never targets that unit with a fire breath attack (dragons), Embers (fire creatures) or single square fire breath attack (Ignys), and spell-casting creatures (like Shrill Lords and Wildland bosses) don't use area spells that the majority of the army (or the sole unit, in case of a one champion army) is 95% or more immune to?

You can miss a lot of early levels by doing this. It may not seem much by looking at the number of xp points but this can be a level or 2 difference for one hero on the early mobs. Try using a explorer or make your own fodder character. Slaves with cheap weapons are best, otherwise make a basic staff unit with Toughness. 

I think I recall an in-depth study of it through the betas, but can't find the post any more.

From what I recall (along with the spreadsheet analysis) the XP from the enemies are pooled together, then divided amongst the participating heroes with a slight adjustment due to level. Then the average XP for the heroes is halved and granted to all participating non-heroes. 

Eg:

Beating an Ogre (total 36xp) with 1 hero and 3 militia gives 36xp for the hero and 18xp for each militia

Beating an Ogre (total 36xp) with 2 heroes & 2 militia gives 18xp each hero and 9xp for each militia

Beating an Ogre (total 36xp) with 3 heroes (level 10,5,1) & 1 militia gives ~15xp,~12xp,~8xp for heroes & 6xp for militia

Also note that there was a time where the XP shown on the battle victory screen didn't quite line up with the actual increase in XP either. I think it's still the case, but haven't checked in 1.3.

Well, after a long game, I find that the new system requires at least a good explanation, or possibly an overhaul.

I've played a large map, more monsters than normal. I won by quest, but before I cleaned three special areas of all monsters, and I also faced a special event 'the world is becoming more dangerous', which spawned numerous nasties inside my territory. Despite having fought all of this, I ended up at barely level 15. Needless to say that in the final combat, I was more than happy to have a dragon and some top notch troops to accompany my heroes. Actually, these troops won three quarter of the fight. The heroes the last quarter...

I am unsure about my opinion on the new balance. certainly, troops become more important than heroes.

Yves

The thing I had in mind is actually the battle report screen I saw in your LH beta playthrough, except it should flash up when heroes brought an XP penalty to the group.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej