An experiement investigating AI research bonuses (v1.02, Challenging)

OK, it's turn 14, and I have my first solid proof that something is not right,

At turn 14, I have 5 cities, and a total research of 7.1 per turn.  I have also found a library, so my total research points are about 70.  I meet Verga, who has one city and less than 50 population.  His tech trade points? 4 as opposed to my 6. With five times less research, he has two thirds of my trade points.  Note that according to the 'Foreign Relation" screen, he has not met anyone, and thus has not gotten his research from trade.

Turn 15, and another bug raises it ugly head.  I watch the level 1 Augus solve a strong quest that involves a fight that he has no chance of handling in a thousand tries.  He gets the level 4 fire mage Haitan.  If AIs get no bonuses on Challenging, a level 1 should not be able to handle a quest that a level 10 could not solo without exceptional equipment.

Turn 23, and I met Karavox.  At this point, my research is 8.7 per turn, and I have about 150 research.  Karavox has 40, Verga 23.  Strangely enough, Verga, with half the research, has 5 trade points to Karavox's 4.  In any case, I trade technology with them both, and end up spending 13 points for their 9.  Now I have 1 point left, and they have none.

Heh - I liked your first set of experiments, I'll enjoy this one.

I'll tell you, though - everyone complains bitterly that the AI has too much research, yet I have yet to actually see the impact of this.  I mean it's not like the AI *ever* fields late-game technology units, right?  Is everyone just mad that their buildings are more advanced?

The AI is terrible at developing its resource improvements.  It does not field top tier units until high difficulty settings mostly because it does not have the iron/crystal for it.  And when I say 'high difficulty settings' I have to say that I have not seen really kick ass AI units since .98x ( those were my designs adopted by the AI)

I do not know what happened.  The AI were giving me the most challenge around .98, no idea why.  I'd like to think it's because I've gotten better, but I'm suspicious of theories that cater to my ego.

In my games, the AI loves catapults.  Thanks to the research bug it gets them ridiculously early.  Of course it has not idea how to use them properly (fun thing I did a couple games ago, was take a high defense golem and walk it over to whack the catapult.  the AI would surround the golem, and then the catapult would obliterate the AI's units.  works every time.)

But there are no high level units because the AI doesn't know how to make units for itself and instead relies on the pre-mades which are universally subpar.  FE desperately needs a mechanism for designing a unit on the fly.  That could be paired with a "best available" algorithm that both the AI and the player can use.  It should also be used to "upgrade" units armor and equipment. 

Most of my designs are one-offs based on the resources I have at hand.  And it's dramatically silly to have to design a new unit because my spearmen have decided they'd be better off wearing magical cloaks rather than leather armor.

Turn 35.  My research is 11.1 per turn - with six cities, spells and studies.   Verga, with 3 cities, is somehow pulling 17 per turn.  I am saving every turn (well, every now and then, I forget).  Once the game is over, I'll use cheats to try and figure out how he is doing it.

On the flip side, I watched a Krax army search a library, and Karavox's research total did not increase by 20, as I would have expected it to.

Turn 37:  I meet Pariden.  Their accumulated research is one fifth of mine, but they have more trade points than I do.  Sure, I have traded with the others, but I assume that Pariden has done so as well.  This is strange.

Stranger is the fact that Yithril is still pulling 27 17 research per turn.  There is no way in Hell Verga can get that from his cities, it's unlikely that he is getting it from a hero, and I can tell he has no technology treaties with anyone.

My caravans give me a look at Yithril's cities.  He has less than 4 research per turn from them.  Where are the other 23 13 coming from?

Turn 39:  Probability sense tingling. 

Within 3 tiles of the Yithril capital, I see five resources: gold, iron, and crystal deposits, a shard, and a prestigious location.

Within 3 tiles of the Krax capital, I see five resources: gold, two clay deposits, a shard and a wild warg pack.

Within 3 tiles of the Pariden capital, I see five resources: gold, iron, clay, a shard, and a wild game hunting game.

No need to point out that there aren't five resources near my capital, is there?

Turn 41: At this point, both Verga and Procipinee are generating more Tech trade points than I am.  Verga because somehow his research is higher than mine, and Procipinee just because (her research is one sixth of mine)

Turn 42: Crash.  I'm on my laptop, and it clearly does not like me switching between large apps. As I reload (first reload in this game), a few interesting things happen. 

Karavox research goes to 12 per turn, without any change in his cities (and there are no more libraries on the map accessible to AIs)

I get the Kitty quest event.  I have never gotten any events but Kitty and the annoying jerk with the useless wipe-population spell.

At this point, the game is kind of pointless.  I am well ahead of the AIs, I have cordoned them off in a quarter of the map, and I have two heroes that they cannot touch.  I have an Empire, they have a bunch of hovels.  Still, they all generate more tech trade points than I do.

Unfortunately, I cannot think of a good way to determine whether the 10+ research per turn that Karavox and Verga seem to have is real, or just an artifact of the "Foreign relation" screen. Any ideas?

Go to their territories and assay their actual tech's researched by shopping with them.  You may need to play on a bit to see the goodies appear but it will give you definite confirmation about some of the tech's that they have completed.

Can't think of any other way.

Edit: If you hang out at their cities you can also tell a bit by watching the improvements that they have built or have queued.

Just did that.  None of the AIs have anything like the research listed in the "Foreign Relations" screen.  They have only very basic items, the kind you would expect from the research their cities are actually producing.

Well, I cal this experiment over.  Now for the conclusions.

It is not a bug; it is a feature. AI actually does not 'play' quest. Regardless of the hero(es)'s stat that triggers quest, it is purely done by chance. As far as I concerned, it is possible to AI to have an ashwake dragon in very early level. With all of monster aggression problem, city raze problem, research problem, it is just one small example of AI simply does not play same game.

And it is probably one of the reasons that Beast Lord and other similar professions (i.e Bandit Lord) are completely useless for AIs because they do not use those things in both 'by chance' resolve and auto-resolve.

I find other issue with the tech points system.

I usually don't use them and leave them grow. When I have around 500 (or when I remember) I trade them in row. If the current research is the one that get completed, pops up the tech selection, but the research is not really working. I have to pick other tech and then come back to spend 1 turn in the "full poped selection".

Anyone saw this?

Haha.  I thought you already knew they got bonus resources (although I didn't know it was always 5, hah.)  Did you also happen to notice that all AI capitals are 5/3/2's as well?  All the ones I've ever seen have been.  I consider myself lucky if I have something as good as a 3/3/2 anywhere near my start location.  5 resources together pretty much doesn't otherwise happen in the wild, and gold mines in my experience are especially rare. AI capitals are tasty targets for early game takeover.

Nice experiment.

Too put it this way... at Ridicilous I faced Champion armored and full company sized units when I still was on the first level of magic weapons against them. (no groups+ at all) They still got owned by Yithril and juggs in the end though...   (Yithril is a fucking nightmare on Ridicilous, the only thing saving me early game was blind spam on juggs)

Initially I gave up completely on above challenging because the AI research was so insane (at the very least 10x as fast as me), but I ended up dealing with by abusing heroes instead of trying to fight them for units. (Destinys gift is "OP" but the only way to fight those insane AI's) I'm not sure I want to try actual Insane yet...

I would like the research toned down and the AI combat mechanics upped a bit, because that kind of research is a bit tad too much. AI being completely retarded in tactical combat (burning blade with a 60+ attack hero instead of attacking for instance) is the only thing saving you there.

(I have designed "ultimate" units for most races though, that probably helps the AI a bit)

Im still fairly new to the game and got run over a lot usually midgame and after. First all seems good but then i met those yithril and insta war and death.

Started a new game with 1 point less tech speed in settings, all seemed well and my neighbours were at same speed with me. Then I meet yithril again and steamroll time. I had only axemans and basic archers with some armour, he had those ogres with door around their head and catapults. no chance in hell to defeat them

Conclusion speed of the world doesnt affect yithril at all.

PS my power is 123 and 11 settlements and yithril is 4 setlements and 117 power at the start of war, for me to get siege weapons it would take 250 seasons...