The three biggest annoyances left in FE

I've written about these before but there remain for me three glaring issues with Fallen Enchantress that either add micromanagement unnecessarily or are just plain annoying:

1. Option to show popup when a city goes to sleep.

By the time the mid game rolls around your city list in the HUD has scrolled off the screen. It is annoying enough needing to look to the left of the screen each and every turn before you click the end-turn button on the right of the screen to see if any of your cities are sleeping; but this is doubly compounded when you need to look to the left, scroll through your cities looking for the 'Zzzz' indicator, then end your turn on the right. And this needs to be done each and every turn because forgetting to produce anything in your cities is a big opportunity loss in FE.

Now if a city finishes construction of a building or finishes training of a unit then there is also a small indicator on the right that something has happened so this helps a little (and I mean a little because this isn't an area of the screen you focus on much). But when you build on a resource away from your city you get no indicator at all. The city just goes to sleep.

This is a real problem and requires the player to micromanage the city list each turn. There has to be a better way of handling this annoying micromanagement.

2. Start units in Tactical Battles in defence mode

I feel this will help the AI some-what because a player can design troops that can close the gap with high initiative and get a lot of easy strikes in. Units should start in defensive posture when entering tactical battles. Perhaps there could be an assassin ambush mechanic added later where an army gets a negative modifier to first turn initiative and doesn't start in defensive posture but over-all I feel this would help the game.

3. Place the units that go first in the front rank in Tactical Battles

The game places the troops that move first in the rear of the army where they get blocked and the slow units at the front where they are in the way. If we can't manually place our units please fix this so the fast troops can move without hindrance. If the fast troops shouldn't be in the front then they still move fist and they can move out of the way. This is such a frustrating issue with the game.

 

This video highlights the tactical battle issues...

at 7minutes 7 seconds there is the extra damage done on first turn

at 17 minutes 5 seconds is the units stuck in the rear ranks

37,287 views 48 replies
Reply #1 Top

Speaking of the tactical battles, I would absolutely LOVE the ability to position my units prior to the start of the battle. It would make tactical battles that much more tactical. All too often do I lose a squishy but valuable unit because it begins the battle in front of my meat shields instead of being behind them.

Reply #2 Top

Somewhat related to #1 is how annoying the popup is for city leveling.  Often I don't even know what city is getting leveled because the name isn't on there and I can't move the popup or the map to see what's underneath it.  I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally turned a planned Fortress into a City, and vice versa because I couldn't tell what I was leveling.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting rvgr, reply 1
Speaking of the tactical battles, I would absolutely LOVE the ability to position my units prior to the start of the battle. It would make tactical battles that much more tactical. All too often do I lose a squishy but valuable unit because it begins the battle in front of my meat shields instead of being behind them.

 

I remember there being some discussion about this if I remember correctly and it came down to the fact that the devs wanted the tactical battles to be a fairly minor part of the game in time spent. I think their rationale was it's a strategy game, not a tactical wargame. 

Reply #4 Top


1.  I really don't think this is a problem.  the Zzzzz on the side work just fine for me.

2 and 3.  I thought there was a note in another thread that they were addressing this.

Reply #5 Top

Quoting GaelicVigil, reply 2
Somewhat related to #1 is how annoying the popup is for city leveling.  Often I don't even know what city is getting leveled because the name isn't on there and I can't move the popup or the map to see what's underneath it.  I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally turned a planned Fortress into a City, and vice versa because I couldn't tell what I was leveling.

Oh god, I'd forgetten about that part.

Yes, this is frustrating.  I love that it gives you all those calculated city details but not the name. And really as dumb as that is, it would be mitigated if it told me how much Grain, Material and Essence are in the city, but it sadly omits those too!

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Emperor_Nero, reply 3
I remember there being some discussion about this if I remember correctly and it came down to the fact that the devs wanted the tactical battles to be a fairly minor part of the game. I think their rationale was it's a strategy game, not a tactical wargame. 

Can't say that I'm too pleased with that rationale. Lack of tactical battles is one reason why I don't own any Galciv games. 

Reply #7 Top

#1 is a huge issue for me. I don't want to have to look for the Zzz every turn, it breaks the smoothness of play for me. I expect more from the UI in a modern 4x game frankly.

I think #2 is a nice suggestion as well.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Cymsdale, reply 8
#1 is a huge issue for me. I don't want to have to look for the Zzz every turn, it breaks the smoothness of play for me. I expect more from the UI in a modern 4x game frankly

I think adding yet another pop up breaks the smoothness of the game.

 

Quoting dangerlinto, reply 6
Yes, this is frustrating.  I love that it gives you all those calculated city details but not the name. And really as dumb as that is, it would be mitigated if it told me how much Grain, Material and Essence are in the city, but it sadly omits those too!

having the original tile count on the city level screen would be a big help.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 9

Quoting dangerlinto, reply 6Yes, this is frustrating.  I love that it gives you all those calculated city details but not the name. And really as dumb as that is, it would be mitigated if it told me how much Grain, Material and Essence are in the city, but it sadly omits those too!


having the original tile count on the city level screen would be a big help.

Yes, totally agree there.  This is such a simple fix, please put it into 1.01!

 

Quoting rvgr, reply 7

Quoting Emperor_Nero, reply 3I remember there being some discussion about this if I remember correctly and it came down to the fact that the devs wanted the tactical battles to be a fairly minor part of the game. I think their rationale was it's a strategy game, not a tactical wargame. 

Can't say that I'm too pleased with that rationale. Lack of tactical battles is one reason why I don't own any Galciv games. 

Honestly though, how many TBS games can you name with great tactical combat?  Master of Magic's sucked, MOO2's sucked, Space Empires 4 and 5 sucked (though 5 looked cool), HOMM tactical combat sucked.  Age of Wonders was decent, but compared to other games in the genre, Elemental's tactical combat aint too shabby.

Reply #10 Top

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 9
=

I think adding yet another pop up breaks the smoothness of the game.

So have an option to toggle it on/off...

It's great that Zzz works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Cymsdale, reply 11

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 9=

I think adding yet another pop up breaks the smoothness of the game.


So have an option to toggle it on/off...

It's great that Zzz works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

So your option is to toggle it on/off, and lose the Zzz's altogether?  I don't want another popup either, which means I would toggle it off, but then I'd never get any notification.  

I like the Zzz's just the way they are, and the unit/city list along the right works just fine for me too.

Reply #12 Top

Didn't E:wom solve this pretty good? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeit, I might even be able to mod that shit in. Will test. Edit: Nope.

Reply #13 Top

 

Yeah I could see adding an option for the popup (defaulting to off).  We already have the code for it so that part is easy.

I agree on putting mounted units up front, I'll talk tot he dev and see what we can do.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Cymsdale, reply 11

So have an option to toggle it on/off...

It's great that Zzz works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.

If they can build it so I can cancle the pop-up, but in the later stages of a big game I can have anywhere from 5, 6, or 7 cities build queues go empty.  Having 7 pop ups just to remind me the queue is empty seems to be a making a window that people will just click to get it out of the way.

Question though:  Does this pop up remind you every turn?  Some places I leave the build queue empty on purpose because I want the research points?  Does this pop up remind me every turn?  I might still have things to build but the research at the moment is more important.  If that happens than is just plan annoying.

Follow up:  Then I finally decide to build a building but I rush it because I still want the research bonus.  Does this thing pop up again even though I know the queue is going to be empty.  That seems to be clicking the okay button just to a click the okay button.

Reply #15 Top

Derek, I'll give you another example.  In my current game, I have 5 groups of Cyndrum Demons.  The tactical battles will put three of them in the first row and two of them in the second row.  Unfortunately, it's the ones in the second row that get to go first.  So as I try to move them forward, they will inevitably be trapped by the units moving in the first row and thus lose a turn of movement.  If I make the first row wait for the second row to go through, then the first row has lost a turn of movement.

Reply #16 Top

AFAIK the city name is always mentioned in the text on the lower part of the city levelup popup window.

I never had a problem figuring out which city got levelled.

I do agree with the points Das brought up, though. The event icons on the right of the screen are easily overlooked and ergonomically its not very convenient to have to scan left and press end turn right.

The tactical battle issues are valid, but I think I've seen mentioned they are working on this.

Reply #17 Top

between the zzz and the hard turn stop i dont see what else is needed..players gotta to pay attention and get over their ocd

 

Reply #18 Top

Even higher priority for tactical battles is units with 0 attack (such as Pioneers) should never be placed in the front row in Tactical battles ... they may have more hit points on occasion, but they will block the actual attack units.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting KingHobbit, reply 15

Quoting Cymsdale, reply 11
So have an option to toggle it on/off...

It's great that Zzz works for you, but it doesn't work for everyone.


If they can build it so I can cancle the pop-up, but in the later stages of a big game I can have anywhere from 5, 6, or 7 cities build queues go empty.  Having 7 pop ups just to remind me the queue is empty seems to be a making a window that people will just click to get it out of the way.

Question though:  Does this pop up remind you every turn?  Some places I leave the build queue empty on purpose because I want the research points?  Does this pop up remind me every turn?  I might still have things to build but the research at the moment is more important.  If that happens than is just plan annoying.

Follow up:  Then I finally decide to build a building but I rush it because I still want the research bonus.  Does this thing pop up again even though I know the queue is going to be empty.  That seems to be clicking the okay button just to a click the okay button.

 

Gee, I dunno, maybe have an option to explicitly research in a city like units can have an option to explicitly guard? These aren't exactly brand new 4x conventions here. I just don't want to have to scan through my city list every single turn.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 19
Even higher priority for tactical battles is units with 0 attack (such as Pioneers) should never be placed in the front row in Tactical battles ... they may have more hit points on occasion, but they will block the actual attack units.

 

Naa this is a good thing. It represents non combat units poor tactical awareness

Reply #21 Top

Thanks for the reply Derek,

As regards the city micromanagement in my Let's Play on Elemental I get to a point where every turn I need to scroll through the city list to find potential sleeping cities. It will be a while before I upload these particular episodes but it became quite annoying. Have an option (default off would be fine) to flag these cities would help enormously with the micromanagement. We have it with research so I would have thought cities would be a similar mechanic.

Trojasmic's reply...

Quoting Trojasmic, reply 16
Derek, I'll give you another example.  In my current game, I have 5 groups of Cyndrum Demons.  The tactical battles will put three of them in the first row and two of them in the second row.  Unfortunately, it's the ones in the second row that get to go first.  So as I try to move them forward, they will inevitably be trapped by the units moving in the first row and thus lose a turn of movement.  If I make the first row wait for the second row to go through, then the first row has lost a turn of movement.

... is the nub of the problem. It is the initiative AND the first move units that need to be in the front. When you have stacks with units with the same initiative the ones that move first are always behind. And if you have a small choke-point on the map and aren't thinking a few moves ahead you often move the first units in front of the other units and then these first move units get in their way when it is their turn to move.

Reply #22 Top

1. I don't think a popup is a good way to handle this, maybe generate a news event (on the right) when a city is asleep instead. This way, you can ignore the news if you don't care... Otherwise, if you turn this on, you'll be bombarded with popups when you have multiple sleeping towns. But what I would REALLY like for sleeping cities, is a toggle on the city to have the sleeping city not interfere with automatic turns. Basically, right now if a city is asleep but doesn't generate anything extra (gold/research), you have to end turn manually all the time. This is usually a problem when you have many towns and only building units in a fortress.

 

2. I don't see this as "important" because it really depends on how you see it. If you look at it like an ambush, with good designs (impulsive + charge) then you are rewarded for it. This makes it hard for slower units, but that's just the inherent disadvantage of being slow. If you're wearing lots of armor that slows you down, there's no reason to give you more defense... doing so would be an inherent nerf on movement/charge/initiative, and I'm not sure it needs one.

 

3. I agree with this, with the obvious but... range units should still be back line units. Although I tend to think that most of this wouldn't be such a problem if we could just get bigger tactical maps.

Reply #23 Top

Something needs to be done for point n° 3, even having placement totally random would have been less of a pain for my all melee stacks. Especially on those maps with bottlenecks, where opening moves are such a seering pain.

A fully controlable deploiment would be great.

 

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Wizaerd, reply 12
So your option is to toggle it on/off, and lose the Zzz's altogether? I don't want another popup either, which means I would toggle it off, but then I'd never get any notification.

Who said anything about removing the "Zzz"?

Anyway, if you add a popup message, it should only occur the first time the city is idling, not every turn, so if you want the city to be idle for a while, it can be without being annoying. (Of course, if the city stops being idle and then on a future turn starts being idle again, it should again result in a popup.)

Reply #25 Top

Putting mounted units in the front is NOT A good idea. Usually my only mounted units are Mages on Wargs... I don't want them getting hit on turn 1 by wolves and other fast enemies.

 

Well my champions will also have mounts... but still I think you need to have a very intelligent system or let players position them explicitly.  

 

Maybe something like

 

Mages / archers always in the back

Melee units with low hp/armor next

then melee units who are slow

melee units who are high defense/hp/initiative/movement in the front. 

 

Ideally it would look at the enemy composition while deciding this... but thats probably too much to ask.