[0.981.2] [Tweak] Purpose of Influence

Just a bit of clarification on what influence does. In addition to the mentioned henchmen/kraxis bonuses, Influence is also used to purchase monster recruitment centers (trolls, ogres, dragons and so on).

The second purpose of influence appears to be diplomacy, and this is actually a rather important bit because (as you say) the AI values it greatly. So influence is indeed intended to work as a sort of symbol for diplomatic leverage. In addition to being able to trade it for this purpose, the AI wlil also increase its friendliness to you if you stock up on Influence. If you have 50-149 you gain +1 Relations, 150-499 you gain +2 Relations and at 500+ you gain +3. As such it is the only resource that has a built-in bonus to stockpiling it.

And you get better deals in trades.  You can abuse it to steal all the computer's resources at no cost.

@Heavenfall & @ MiamiBigAL

Thanks for some clarification guys. However, it is confirmed then that influence is only good for hoarding. Not much fun, imo.

Here are the three reasons for influence mentioned:

• Purchasing of monster units
• Diplomatic relations improve, the greater the influence you have.
• Trade deals improve, the greater the influence you have.

I like the purcahsing of monster units. Really glad about that. In addition, heroes can easily be considered an extension to the purchasing of henchment or monster units. It's along the same vein....why not have the same...or similar.....system?

Kinda think the other two items recently brought into the light are backwards to what they should be though. Imo, if you want to improve relations with a faction, you should be giving up influence to do so. It should be a transaction. Similarily for the purchasing of items. I don't think it's a good system that if you've successfully hoarder an item that no one can in any way take away from you, you get to stomp on everyone else for free, without setback???

+1
It would feel more in line with the other uses if you must spend it to generate an effect.

Aka: Give 50 Influence-Point to a faction – gain +x Relation for y turns…   

Precisely.

That sounds super boring though. While sitting on a stockpile of influence sounds fun.

I don't get how sitting on a dormant resource sounds fun...

I wish you could use influence when nations threaten you with their "pay or die" things.  That seems the opportune time to use influence.

This suggestion makes me smile, which makes it one of the really interesting ones... "Pay or Die"... how about I like take all your nobles on a vacation to my monumental sightseeing houses....

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

Or.. and stay with me here.. you could use influence to purchase civic tier units and buildings as if it was some sort of resource or something.. that you could see in your top panel where resources are listed. Crazy!

Always thought influence was a balance issue, because the player isn't really impacted by AI influence, but the AI is influenced by player influence.

I wish there was a way the AI could make a player force-accept with influence.

From the other thread:

Great ideas GFireflyE!

It could also be a great way of interconnecting the size of an empire and the power of it's champions; simply by changing their wage requirement to influence, and adding influence generation to a few city buildings.

But then comes the question: What happens when you can't pay? Do they disband? Do you get to choose who disbands? Do they riot? Do they become dormant again?

 Not saying that this is a bad idea. Quite the opposite. Just needs some fleshing out.

You should definitely be able to negotiate a deal in other equivalent terms when another nation threatens you, or they should ask for different / divergent resources, other than the now standard "bully for gildar" approach.

The same thing that happens with gildar, you go into the negative: new champions are unable to be hired, current champions may abandon faction to explore the world under AI control, plus all the other ramifications that a negative influence may have on a player's AI relations.

I've often thought that influence should be removed from the game and prestige should take its place. You should be able to trade prestige in diplomacy just like influence but it would have a lot more meaning for the player. Since prestige means growth trading your prestige could be painful. So prestige should be worth a lot diplomacy wise if you do decide to trade it but there is a reason for that. It would also give players a reason to buy prestige from AIs at very high cost. If a player has reached mid game and just doesn't have enough growth in their empire they can buy some prestige from the AI at a very high cost. AIs should never sell prestige below a certain point instead they will only sell what is considered excess prestige which would be prestige above a minimum prestige mark. Just a thought.

Trading away influence, prestige, etc, is not realistic at all anyway, so what it comes down to is whether changing the influence game mechanics adds to game play and strategy.

I'm all for finding more uses for influence if it adds to game play, though i would think that would take a lot of re-balancing, probably too much at this stage.  There is nothing "broken" about the way influence works now (except trading abuse).

Not broken. Just boring.

Broken loyalties is a pretty good use of influence.  I've used it to wipe out factions before; capture their last 2 or 3 cities without a fight.

Little thought but I'd suggest the following for the OP about champions:

Lv 1-3 champions
0 influence cost, same gold cost. (no need for starting influence to everyone)
Lv 5+
5 or 10xlevel in influence in addition to a reduced gold cost.

Doesn't really need to be more complex than that. Any additional use for influence would be fun.

My Suggestion:

Use it to build caravans for internal trade.

This thought may not be popular, but my suggestion is to chuck it out of the window. there's enough resources already :p i wouldn't miss influence if it completely vanished from the game.

Well I did not know that. 

Super helpful, thanks. 

I still quite like the other suggestion about using it for recruiting champions, but this puts it into a bit of context. 

Does it also change the value they place on your resources when trading?

Also, to be pedantic, gold can also have a bonus for stockpiling it, if you have the treasury vault or some such building (which I have NEVER had, but I assume it works).

Heroes should be able to join you as an act of commitment (influence), greed (gildar) or despair. A lv1 champion alone in the wilderness needs a companion just to survive, while a Lv9 chanpion with an army will need a different motivation. To me the simple rule of DrFranknfurter sounds like a very good idea, and it does not even have to cost influence but could depend on the current stockpile. 

Can't say I am fond of the current influence system atm. Although I do like the influence works with regards to altar's henchmen.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej