It is time for your destruction to begin

I look forward to my impending destruction.

It's kinda obvious but you didn't mention it so...

1. How can I get first strike in melee or ranged combat should be something the AI worries about. Currently the AI is easy to manipulate into ending his turn within your next turns strike range, even if he has higher movement then you. Allowing you first strike and a significant advantage. The AI should try to out maneuver you so he can get first strike. 

2. The AI should try and use ZoC to limit the amount of attacks you can land on a single unit. So it's hard for you to focus fire.

Well that is very encouraging because, as I noted in the MoM vs FE thread, right now FE has a chess set that is all pawns. Some little pawns, some medium, some larger and maybe sometimes an ineffectual bishop. Too easy to beat, very little tactical thought required. Just bring a bigger sword and whack away until they're all dead. More/better spells and a tactically challenging battle system are what FE (IMHO) is missing most at this point in development. Feel free to take as long as you want. Get it right and this might be one of the games I play for a decade plus.

*disclaimer: The smack talk has begun

Ok. Your AI should be able to do the following stuff, else I will kick its ass every single time. At least, this is how I prioritize my targets and deceide on my plans. Oh and yes, I will happily divulge my secrets. Remember what Ash says: There's no such thing as overkill, only just enough kill.

Target priority. This is decision time. The following rules apply, in no particular order ( this is what I do in any tactical combat).

- Reduce number of attackers. He who slaps the most wins.

- Send casters to hell. The Deepest Pit, as Quick as Possbie if the caster can cast AoE's and summon nasties.

- Shutdown melee heroes. Shrink em. Slow em. Blind em. Curse em. If the AI knows ( and he can) that he can kill off a very, very nasty and quick melee unit in two casts, Take em out.

- Ranged units before slower moving melee units.

- Once you are dedicated to kill something, KILL IT! Currently the AI switches targets, especially against superior numbers, and attacks all of em a bit. If its dead, its not doing damage anymore. He who slaps the most wins... dead things dont slap. A unit with 1 HP leftover is still 100% more effective than a unit with 0 HP.

- He who strikes first slaps one extra time. So put your units with counterattack in the front line

Pick a plan, stick with it or switch.

The problem is that its not always "take out the highest threat first" or "kill the archers".

Casting time.

Basically there are a few types of spells. Buffs, Debuffs, Extra troops, Molten slag.Those are the options.

- Buff your own army. Battlecry and such are very usefull if started ASAP.

- Debuff the enemy : If a single cast debuffs the entire army and most of them are troops, cast it.

- Shutdown melee heroes. See target priority

- Reduce enemies to molten slag. As per reduce numbers, unless casters in which case we melt the casters first.

- If its all melee enemy, slow em to a crawl and then pick em off.

- If outnumbered and in possession of Elemental spells... cast em. Strong elementals first, keep em coming.

- Heal when needed, not always. If something does 40 damage per hit and your unit is at 34 HP, an 8 heal spell will keep it in the fight for one more round. But if you do 60 damage with Molten Slag and your unit does only 30... Heal it!  (think about the why).

Movement

- Slow em.

- Spread out your own army, even if its hang-back-and-cast/fire. AoE spells exist for a reason ( that is, to make sure you cannot be hit by them and to make sure you can nuke your opponent with them).

- Pile em up so you can AoE em (this requires two-turn planning).

- If the enemy lines up, pick a flank and run it over. Works well with slow em ( once lined up), so you can pick em apart piecemeal.

AI should be willing (And have planned) to sacrifice an army to kill off key units, and then wipe the floor with the rest in the next battle.And then laugh. And laugh. And laugh. And if its with 1 HP and you are with 0... laugh some more.

Mana usage

So lets say we generate 30 mana every turn and fight once every 4 turns, on average. To keep mana at its current level we can expend up to 120 mana. Now lets assume the enemy has 4 cities and we are off on war against the enemy. We stand to gain his cities, his production capabilities and his cash flow. We have 1000 mana, and generate 30 mana a turn. Assuming no-one else attacks us (And that;s a gamble I am willing to take, because I will have non-aggression pacts everywhere) the maximum amount of mana I would spend is... everything... becase I will be at +4 cities and thus increase the total might of my empire by +4 cities plus all the resources those lands contain. Unless we are at war with everyone.

Come and get me

p.s. Do bring out your dead. I've been at this since I was 9, I am now 32. Tabletop, PC, PnP or board, if there's something to kill, I will kill it. Make me an AI that struggles. LOTS.

 p.p.s. Common sense tactics always apply. If you point out something that's common sense and that the above doenst seem to fill, you are allowed to assume I've taken that for granted.

whew!!, post made my hair stand on end

first strike ability & counter attack options/traits for unit making would help the whole 'who gets to hit who first' thing by making/adding defensive strategies (I want my kite shield wall to 'hold tha line') - oh and maybe some additional magic resist options for troop making so my 'holding line' doesn't necessarily have to die just because there's a mage in the oppisition, could also have anti longrange attack traits for them - would also like somekind of drain life enchant/trait - & a shield spell to protect one from magic attacks (for single unit, & tac army) - I would really like to have some kind of formation setup so I could have my line going from the getgo instead of having to move my men around into position every battle

1)

Ranged units are handy, but not effective if you can afford to fill multiple armies. If you screen them with expensive melee units you can build and trait them to do decent damage at very low cost sans armor on any target on the field. It's very handy while the AI doesn't use spells. I'd say think of them as cheap filler units. If you can afford it, just build more of the melee units because their damage scales with stats.

2)

 AI should focus slow units on blocking enemy units and focus firing them down, while fast units are sent after vulnerable enemies. Watch American Football, steal ideas from how the offensive plays are run (line men screening the qb, running backs plowing through holes to get deep into backfield, receivers charging around and getting in the rear, etc). American football teams think more about this sort of small number locationally limited "melee" tactics stuff than you or I or anyone else ever will, so piggy back on their work.

3)

Vulnerability is irrelevant. Anyone who tells you otherwise spends their time faffing about rather than annihilating your AI. You should remove it in favor of differentiating weapons in some other way, it's a vestigial system. 

4)

Only cast aoe spells. Almost none of the single target, buff or debuff spells are worth the mana. This isn't necessarily true vs monsters, but the tacAI is only fighting the human sooooo. Only cast them at the start when enemies are clustered. If you can control strat development for AI mages, focus on initiative and aoe damage spell lines. You can significantly reduce costs through traits and gear to the point that many spells are free. 

More broadly you guys need to spreadsheet out a CBA on mana to damage based on potential unit concentration, a bunch of your spells are totally out of whack.

Barry is right about Shink and Growth, those are the only buff/debuff spells I bother with. The others, not useful. Grow should be used on heroes who can do aoe multihit, shrink should be used on enemy champs with melee higher than unit def for the guy they're going after. 

There are times that you absolutely want to switch targets before fully destroying a unit.  Because individual units within a group/company/etc can be killed and the damage the unit can do scales with what is left standing within the unit if your next attack is gross overkill for your current target you should switch to a healthier company that is within reach.  This will maximize the effectiveness of your damage output to destroy your enemy's damage output capability.  

For example, if your attack is capable of destroying 5 out of 9 guys in a unit, but your current target only has 1 guy left, you should attack the undamaged 9 guy stack that is also in reach because you're damage output hurts your opponent more by reducing the 9 stack to 4 than by reducing the 1 stack 0.  

Would it be usefull if we FRAPS battles so you can look at them Brad?

"Forward, the Light Brigade!"
Was there a man dismay'd?
Not tho' the soldier knew
Some one had blunder'd.
Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do and die.
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six hundred.

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Flash'd all their sabres bare,
Flash'd as they turn'd in air
Sabring the gunners there,
Charging an army, while
All the world wonder'd.
Plunged in the battery-smoke
Right thro' the line they broke;
Cossack and Russian
Reel'd from the sabre-stroke
Shatter'd and sunder'd.
Then they rode back, but not,
Not the six hundred.

The AI needs to do these:

1. Placement: Which unit is best where? Make a front line and protect your ranged units. Utilize tile bonuses for archers, making sure they can't be flanked.

2. Figure out who needs to die first. Is there a powerful mage over there or perhaps alot of archers? Does anyone have Maul?

3. Decide if magic needs to be used to help the front line. Then look at whether or not archers or mages are being flanked. 

4. Make sure the AI will switch targets if someone has one hit left on them and that unit is in range. Call it "Opportunity to Kill."

5. Never use magic to clean up once the AI has the advantage. Override this when there are many more battles this turn. 

6. Give alot of summoning strategy to mages. There are specific summons for certain situations. Make sure there are tags like ranged attack, heals radius on spawn, healer summons, counter archers, fast summons, uber summons (for when you are outmatched), counter mage, counter warrior. Don't necessarily need all these right away, but leaving an option in the AI tags to counter a unit on the battlefield would be great.

Ex:

<AI_Summons_Type>CounterUnit</AI_Summon_Type>

     <Type>Archer</Type>

or

<AI_Summons>EvenBattleRating</AI_Summon_Type>

     <Type>Tank</Type>

Now you can add a tag to any summons that will specify what it is good at countering or doing on the battlefield. 

Ex: In the creature definition for Air Shrill.

<Counter_Type>Archers</Counter_Type>

<Counter_Type>Mages</Counter_Type>

This would be the ideal way to handle summons on a tactical level. It might not be how you want to do it. Hope something is useful though. 

One of the reasons I've been asking for a no mana in Tac Battle option, is so you would be able to use it also, I figured the best option would be calculating if mana is needed.

(maybe allow no mana to use counterspell if needed)

*DP

Exactly my thoughts. Maybe the 0.78 wil be better but so far tactics are just irrelevent beyond getting first strike and hide archers in corners. Even if you designed an AI that played with superhuman intelligence and skill, every battle would just come down to having the better spells and stats, even if the difference between the armies was very small. Tactical Battle Needs flushed out.

Vulnerability from what ive seen is so rare as to be none existant some champion armor only and dont hit elementals with magic of their own type). I can only assume it has yet to be fully implemented which makes it hard to contemplate your question. If expanded to monsters and regular troops than you should include it for target preference but don't bother with cutting/blunt/piercing if its staying the same.

This plus the AI needs to calculate who has more ranged firepower and act defensively with ZOC if it has that advatange. It should force you to go to it and use magic to slow you down if able.

AI should be smart enough to attack units on the way to more vulnerable units and to position its units where they are likely to be able to strike more vulnerable units, not just running in a straigt line. Attacking units should not only take every opportunity to strike at archers and mage but work towards that goal by focus firing on defensive units and other tricks.

that was reply #2 quoted there not my reply #4

I would like to add that it should be in the AI's best interest to start its tactical combat AI before tactical combat starts. What I mean is that it should prepare to go into a particular battle with a strategy in mind. There should be different strategies and possibilities, depending on the resources available to the AI - but the strategic AI should make use of its abilities to set up the most favorable tactical combat it can.

e.g. Just before engaging an enemy army, cast a spell to reduce all fire-resistance in the enemy army stack. Then engage in tactical combat and use fire elemental summons and fireballs.

Brad, you have computer algorithms at your fingertips so do some mathematical evaluations on this...

If the AI can win the battle, find the most efficient way to take out the human armies one by one.  As others have suggested, don't fight multiple armies (unless AOE spells); instead focus on killing one stack, then the next, then the next. 

If the AI can't win the battle, find a way to rate the human armies then take out the most you can.  Make sense?

1. Did we start the battle or where we attacked?

2. Am I interested in winning this fight or should I retreat?

3. Should I cast any spell or should I conserve all my mana for a more important fight or strategic spell?

4. As an AI do I know how to focus my armies attacks across turns on a single target?

Since we don't have ZoC you can't effectively block units unless the battlefield has choke points. ZoC blocking should have been added.

Item #2 is an interesting one.  Having lots of targeting rules and bypassing things (like MMO style targeting of killing casters and glass cannons first) seems like *smart* AI and pretty effective.  Problem being that it currently wouldn't be very *fun* AI.  If the enemy constantly runs past my expensive defenders in plate to attack my back rows, that's smart stuff, but I'd just never create or research armor again.  Right now it would neither be efficient cost wise to make a wall of units to protect squishy stuff (vs pure glass cannons) or very plausible (no preset start formation, small tac map, high move speeds, low unit count, etc).  So it would just make my armies feel more homogenous.

Perhaps some asymmetric AI thinking might help to make a more overall effective tactical AI.  Random roving monsters don't need to play to win the game, and the AI doesn't have to focus on winning each battle.  So for roving monsters, perhaps they should focus more on wiping out units that are weakened (ie the AI most wants to wipe out a unit or knock out a champ rather than win the fight).  Not only would it feel like they are more bestial / want to eat things - but more importantly it would mean that the player is losing trained units, getting more wounds, that sort of thing.  Thus, the world monsters are slowing the player's overall power climb.

Flipside, the faction AI would focus more on winning the fight, which is what most of the AI seems to do now.  Perhaps focus on a dangerous spellcaster first more often, etc.  Most of the suggestions I'm sure fall into the category of making this sort of thing happen.

In the end, to make bypassing units interesting, I'd think a mechanic would have to go in- ie slowing movement to 1 when adjacent to enemy unit, or DnD style attacks of opportunity to things moving around you (or both).  That might create an opportunity cost for the AI in picking what to bypass and when to try to hack through those heavy armored units.  But that's more a long term thought.

For the other questions - #1, I fear enemy casters more than archers, for ranged units, but that's more due to the stats on the units that can do those sorts of things.  They would be good "bypassing" units, IMO to focus on back ranks.  On #3, agree that its mostly fluff with current balance.  Sometimes I direct high pierce units towards heavy armor, but only in pretty fringe situations.

On #4 - I think for my own play this usually has a lot to do with the overall strategic game.  Sure there's spells that are better or worse to use, but in the end I go into a fight thinking about how important it is to win / preserve those troops, and if I'm saving my mana for something big/powerful later on.  If the AI could figure out things like this, and give itself a mana budget for the battle (and perhaps be smart enough to reassess if luck had it suddenly winning /losing), it could go a long way.

I wish this was true about, idk, EVERY game i've ever played..
The AI in every game always just attacks everything a little bit, causing few casualties and hence the AI recieves the same ammount of damage as in the start of the battle, while the player always focus-targets and thereby reduces the enemy damage output. End result, the one with the least damage output wins. Period.

Frankly Froggy, as a famous man once said, 'That's mighty tall talk for a one-eyed fatman.'

I'd be happy if your tactical AI would actually damage some of my troops after the 1st 100 turns let alone kill one of them. I think I've only lost 3-4 low level units in any of the tactical battles that I've fought so far, and you have a lot of catching up to do. Tactics; I haven't even BEGUN to use tactics in FE yet. Haven't needed much more than some very basic level stuff to beat even your best to date.

First thing I'd do is modify the battlefield so every battle can give the AI some advantage. Many here have asked for a larger battlefield and I think you should consider doing that as space will be the AI's best friend. Also, you might want to consider setting terrain up so that there are benefits to certain areas and exploit them. You'll need to use what the computer does best and that's know WHERE the best defensive areas are and use them to your advantage.

Make barriers REAL barriers. Not only magical ones, but when natural barriers are on the battlefield, use them. Create choke points. Tree lines should block LOS from archers and direct LOS spells while allowing you to hide your spell casters so they can cast buffs on your units without taking direct damage. Also, try to move to the best defensive spot before taking your action.

As others have said, in a tactical battle - initiative and movement are king. The AI needs to focus on traits and object that give them the ability to go first and if they can't directly attack someone then put themselves in position to make an attack on them as tough as possible. Decide if you need to fight an offensive or defensive fight. If the other side has spell casters, target the highest rated with the lowest defense or a particular low resistance. Same with ranged targets, you will need to take out ranged targets, but only concentrate on ranged targets IF they can really do much damage. Spending a high level spell to take out a group of low level archers while ignoring that melee fighter with the high movement/high combat strength may be a waste of a spell. Oh, the AI needs to use the right spell. Don't try to throw a fireball spell when 1) the odds are that you won't get it off or 2) a Flame dart spell does just as well. Limit overkill.

Use AoE spells wisely, spells that can slow movement over a certain area are better than a single slow spell. Spells that have no chance of resistance are preferable to one that has a higher chance to fail. Since the computer can do the math, do it! If a slow spell is all you got, then use it in the place where it's got the best chance to work.

Never bring a knife to a gunfight. Far too often I find AI armies running around with tons of militia units rather than effective fighting men. The calculation that you do to decide a armies strength. IF you are basing your combat strategy off that number, then you are already at a disadvantage - especially with hero stacks. I can take down epic units with strong units, and almost defeat them with medium strength units 80% of the time.  Perhaps the ratings need to be constantly re-evaluated in the game because what might be a epic strength army at the beginning of the game is nothing more than a medium strength army mid to late game.

Others have mentioned other specific tactics - chances are you already KNOW everything that has been said here. Even if you do 1/2 of the stuff mentioned here the AI will be far more challenging than in most games. 

Good luck. 

Actually we can. Units adjacent to an enemy can only move one space or retreat. Not full ZoC, but it makes blocking an option. I am surprised you didn't notice.

Actually you can block flanking. Just put your units on every other tile in a line. Probably the lack of tactical AI and OP of heroes has obscured the limited ZoC, but it is also tiresome to read suggestions based in incomplete data. 

Placement:

I hope that tactical maps are designed in conjunction with your tactical AI. There are currently not enough maps. The ones we do have offer no tile bonuses. A few of them have a single choke point in the middle. I understand the design is to only have one round before melee starts, but there are so many ways to build the middle choke point. The AI needs to be able to handle them all. 

Ex: A block in the middle of the field has two choke points. A checkerboard of blocked swamp tiles, or swamp tiles that reduce defense and prevent movement. Three smaller blocked areas in the field, creating three choke points. 

The AI needs to be able to handle flanking and defending these types of maps. 

Also, create a function so the defender has a selection as to the defensive terrain and position.  If I am defending, I'll choose the high ground, the cover, the choke points, etc. that are most to my advantage.  Make the attacker suffer, particularly if the A.I. can effectively utilize these terrain features.

Couldn't agree with last two posts more, tactical battles need more terrain variance and a slight defensive terrain bonus would be an interesting mechanic.

How I approach tactical is threat assessment balanced by target opportunity.

• Typically, I will look at the field and find the units which present the greatest danger should they be able to land an attack, spell or whatnot. That is the basic level priority list. High attack values are priority targets to hit before they can strike. High attack value targets with high defense values may be deprioritized slightly for other high attack units which might be easier to kill.
• Next I look at which enemies will be able to land attacks right now, versus those which may have to wait a few turns. Units that can attack soonest are elevated in priority somewhat, but not automatically to the top of the list. 
• Awareness of unit special abilities is also a determining factor in attack prioritization. If a unit can counterstrike it makes a less appealing melee target, but a more appealing ranged target.
• Next I look at my own units and decide which ones will be doing the majority of the melee engagement and which can range.
• Range units will attempt to increase the distance between themselves and enemies at all times provided that there is no negative aiming adjustment.
• Spell casters will also attempt to increase distance when possible. Spell casters will prioritize spell casts by estimating the health points difference per turn. So a flame dart might do 8 points but can be cast each turn, while fireball can only be cast once every two. A summon spell could deal damage over multiple turns, a heal spell equates to some restored points. It's an imperfect system to be sure, but it's all I can think of at the moment.
• Melee units will attempt to gauge their movement to coincide with first strike attempts on enemy units and when possible multiple units will look to engage the same target. Typically, melee units will be forced to attack front-line targets rather than attempt to avoid those targets at the cost of free enemy attacks and missing their own attacks. So, opportunity to attack is the most important thing, followed by target prioritization.  Melee units will also attempt to shield via ZoC the back line ranged and caster units. Lastly, melee units with counterstrike will likely be placed in the least advantageous position in order to garner extra attacks via that ability. Melee units which do not reach a target to strike will adopt defensive posture.
• When it is ascertained that a melee unit can close and deliver a first strike, melee units should attempt to render that unit ineffective, but shouldn't be married to the notion that ineffective = dead. A multi-figure group that is reduced from an attack 100 to an attack of 20 may constitute ineffective status, especially if there is another 100 attack unit standing there waiting to swing. In those cases it may be worthwhile to have two wounded units standing instead of one full strength and one dead. Also, leaving wounded units alive in the ZoC of a counterstrike defender is an easy way to polish off a wounded enemy if they choose to attack. 
• Once in range of enemy units attack priority depends on a few things, in more or less order of importance: high attack value target, attackable by multiple allies,  poor initiative (can be attacked multiple times before its move), low(er) defense value, is this enemy the exclusive target of another allied unit likely to disable it before the enemy can attack

I think that's mostly it.

There is some additional variability in blocked tiles/choke points in tactical battles fought in the howling chasm/storm dragon wilderness playspace. Single tiles distributed throughout the tactical map are blocked to movement, which allows a number of possibilities for anchoring lines and juking.

As for a more general reply to the OP: what Barrynor said. And then this: I'm going to use every cheap trick I can think of.

If I know the AI is prone to making a mistake, I will beat it over the head with said mistake. Your job is to make sure it learns from that beating. Don't leave gaps to exploit, either in AI tactics or in game design.

For example? Currently, armies arrive on the battlefield seemingly randomly distributed. Often I find my vulnerable casters and ranged units are dumped at the front of the army, and will have to stay there through most of the first round of initiative, because I can't switch between unit moves to rearrange. For me, that's something to plan around. (I haven't explored it much, but my suspicion is there may be some link to the order in which the units are added to the army, because my Sov is always first in the army but at the back in tactical - can your AI account for that?). But it's also an opportunity. Will I sacrifice a high-init melee champ to take down an AI caster that's stuck at the front for a moment? Well, right now, no, because the AI is dumb. But once their casters are something to fear, you betcha.

I'm the sort of person who passes multiple-choice exams by cross-referencing the questions. So, I suspect, are a bunch of other people around here. The AI can be as gifted as it wants, but if it or the game design has holes, it's gonna be eaten alive.

What's the human player's disadvantage? Well, if they're like me, they're lazy. I don't even play strategically with a spreadsheet, never mind in tactical. So beyond one or two-turn basic arithmetic, there's no reason the AI shouldn't be out-calculating me.

Most importantly, it needs to know when it's going to lose, and use that to advantage. There's got to be some way it can look at things and say "this is going to be a loss or a draw/too-close-to-call", dump as much offense as possible in one turn, and 'escape'. With an initiative advantage, repeating this can wear down even formidable foes over time. Even without an initiative advantage, it can deter a superior force from aggressing.

[Edit] One more thing that popped into my mind, that I've seen allusions to but always do myself is: match damage output to HP left as closely as possible. Avoiding the use of your 60 dmg melee hero to kill something with only a couple of HP is only the most obvious example. So keeping each unit free to choose as many targets as possible is key. This is also a reason I almost always equip my mages with ranged weapons - there will often be opportunities to kill something that has only 1-2 HP left, when the battle is at a point that doesn't require further casting. Save mana, spend an arrow.