Elemental just isn't a fun game

That's why the CEO decided to put resources into Fallen Enchantres, a stand-alone game hopefully more fun than WOM.

And I'll get this game for free because I bought WOM when it came out.

You play Dominions 3 but you can't figure this game out?

Agree with OP on the lack of fun element. There's a number of reasons, a few being-

-Poor SFX. As George Lucas said 'Sound is half the picture'. I couldn't believe my ears with the anaemic SFX in Elemental.

-Lack of 'theatre' for want of a better word. There's no drama in anything. In MoM practically everything that you were informed about came with a bit of fanfare. It had charm.

-Fantasy games are escapist guilty pleasures. Playing something as exciting as a spreadsheet does not lend to that sense of escapism. In fact it's alot like a job I used to have, but without the benefit of being paid.

Getting a free game because the original wasn't up to par is pretty much unheard of though so SD have redeemed themselves in my eyes (unless FE isn't very good either).

Good point. I'm lost already at the main menu of that game...

He did mention the 300 page Dom3 manual.  I remember getting that huge thing and reading it like it was the bible and I was an ex junkie who just found Jesus.  The game had a simple demo that let you learn the basic mechanics, and the book had strategies for each nation.  Yes, Dom3 three is complex, but it also came with a great guide. 

To me, the "fun" in elemental can be improved in

- AI, AI, AI. Where's the shield-wearing units? Where are the mounts? Why is it so terrible in tactical combat?

- Tactical combat is boring, and not just because of AI. There are obvious cheese tactics with no downsides, and there's a huge lack of diversity.

My question is: Once FE comes out, what reason is there to ever play WoM again?

There wont be one.

LOL, great point.  I tried the Dom 3 demo and quit after an hour.  I know people really enjoy it but I was utterly lost.  WOM for all of its flaws I was able to puzzle out relatively quickly.  It seemed alot closer in lineage to MOM and HoMM3.

The game needs improvement but I am enjoying it on extreme AI difficulty.  The modding community has definitely helped liven up the basic game and some developer attention along those same lines coud lead to greatness.

I understand people are frustrated with the game, but SD has weathered the storm of criticism and promised to make good in a way few if any other game developers or software publishers has ever done...

 I mean, except when Microsoft upgraded all of those Vista OEM systems to Win7 for free...

(yes, the sarcasm light is most definitely "ON".)

So it's more than a stand alone expansion, it's a replacement...

Sure, I can figure out how to play WOM-that's not the issue, but I'm not having fun doing it, so what am I missing?  Why does it suck?

What am I not doing right?  Where is the desire to play another turn?  I have no story, no tension.  It's a clickfest.

Just as important, Dominions 3, as has been pointed out, was not an easy game to understand.  It required work.  It required an investment.

But it had a decent (if simple) tutorial that walked me through a sample game

and it included a 300 page manual that went into strategic depth.   So I had something to work with.

What tutorial do I have in WOM?  What manual do I have?  (Let's face it--that 30 page thing we got is a joke) It's like trying to wipe your butt with a single square of toilet paper.  I have a big ass, so I need a little more, thank you.

If I can't figure out how everything interconnects, I'm not going to have much fun because I may not be taking advantage of what the game offers.

Show me.  Explain it to me.  Walk me through it.  Provide me something in v1.2, otherwise, its just more of the same: No fun. 

Unfortunately I think the answer is likely that you aren't missing anything. IMO there just isn't all that much game in WoM. I always liked the engine and its always been pretty solid for me, some of the ideas have potential (even great potential) but the interplay between options, scarcity of resources and therefore need to make difficult choices just isn't there, or isn't right. Throw in underwhelming amounts of interesting fluff and a mediocre AI and the game just doesn't gel for me.

If FE unleashes just half the potential though then it should be a cracker. And I continue to live in hope that a content patch for WoM will at some point put more life into the game.

I delayed posting a reply to think about it.  So...

I agree with the Op it's not much fun.  A manual won't make up for that, sadly.   Mistwraithe got it mostly right: a {fantastically huge} content patch is needed.

Examples of not fun: 

1 Using the same spells every game at the start. 

2 Having the same spells to choose from every game start

3 Picking up lots of goodie huts/+10 materials/midnight stones. 

4 This game is supposed to be about magic yet it has a very linear approach to researching everything.  Magic isn't so linear.  Linear purchase of armor. Linear research for both magic and technology.  Linear improvement in units.  Linear shop improvements. 

5 This is supposed to be fantasy.  That usually means something fantastic can happen at any time.  Ideas: How about some discoveries and/or breakthrough's that are random--a visiting wizard offers to teach you X for Y but since you haven't researched it you have a 20% chance of causing an explosion or turning 1/3 your population into sheep.  A scroll is found that will let you fly for x turns but when you land you're still a bird for 2 more turns.

6 Tactical combat is very linear. I have sword I hit you; you have spear you hit me.  Where are all the cool combat spells that MoM had 20 years ago? Abilities like two handed weapons, weapons master, assassins strikes, tunneling so it gives you and advantage, jumping so it gives you and advantage, mirage, etc.?  Ok, maybe in FE, when's that exactly coming?

7 I've said this for a long time: fantastic units introduce fantasy and a sense of wonder and achievement you just can't get with all one race/faction whatever you want to call it here. If I can use lots of different races with different abilities (not swords and weapons, but poisons and flight and illusions and on-fire) the game is automatically more interesting.

One small rant: I can't tell when I can walk over a hill and when I must go around it. Really frustrating.

I really could go on for a long time.  But, lots of us did when the beta process began, and there are a LOT of suggestions on this website that were simply not leveraged.  SD needs to re-read them.  The posts still have value.  I've seen a number of posts with GOOD ideas, yet the game just keeps on dealing with the very mundane engine/memory/developer/mod priorities.  Like 'building homes is different in Fallen Enchantress'. That's not "wow". 

Ok, I get that these engine and memory fixes are really important cuz the game won't be stable/scalable/moddable without the changes.  I understand getting the basics done. I had no idea they were so far behind on the basics that it would take a year before anything but the basics of the game would be worked on. Right now eWom is still just another game development in process IMHO--one that might be ready in a year or two for public sale.

Anyway, until they release a whole new game or major major content update, I'm done caring about the updates--it's not fun enough to spend my time on.  There are lots of better games to play (especially if you've gotten ahold of the 1.40f release of MoM from the Internet).  Hopefully in a few years they will have had enough time to turn to the important factors of gameplay and stop spending all the time on the basics.

I just started playing E:WoM so it's still fun for me 'cause it's all pretty fresh.  I do see some of the repetition already as I find myself rushing for the same spells to cast and following the same tech paths between different games.

There were a series of videos that Frogboy and another player did that *really* helped me with my first few games (and had some comedic elements too):

https://forums.elementalgame.com/391280

I'm trying out some of the mods for the first time and they seem fun.  I don't know if they'll add a great deal to the longevity of the game for me.  Too early to tell.  Very much looking forward to FE!

Apparently they're supposed to be two completely different games. Read recent Dev Journal.  EWOM is the empire building goodness we were all wanting ('cept it's not good) and FE is something entirely different.

It's why I've been bitching for a while that because of FE, it's as if they've given up on EWOM. I STILL don't understand the NEED to create an entirely NEW game before fixing the one we all wanted and paid for. Yes, we're all geting FE for free (well those of us that bought early), but I didn't WANT FE, I wanted EWOM as it was promised me.

But, we'll see what 1.3 does though I think it'll be the last EWOM 'expansion' of any significance... I'd be shocked (and apologize profusely here as much as I bitch) if there's a 1.4 and 1.5 to actually bring content and fun to this game.

Sigh. 

Then again, FE might be the best game ever and we'll all stop bitching.. until we realize we never actually got what we initially paid for, a fun, fully working deep game called EWOM.

Yes, "fantastically huge" content patch is, to me, a good start. Or just dump it now and make sure you get FE right because I'm 100% certain EWOM isn't going to get GalCiv type of support down the line, though I'd looooove to be wrong.

Not to mention you could have huge armies and all your little stick figure dudes would swarm out and attack all at once. Sure, it's graphically inferior to most games today, and kinda was even when it came out, but even with just the basic visual elements the battles were pretty sweet. Plus the huge variation in special abilities for just about every single kind of attack, different kinds of damage and weaknesses, and tons and tons of spells. For something that looks so simple, it has incredible depth and replayability.

Why elemental is bad: poor game design

Why elemental will never be fixed: the core game design has not been revised 

Enchantress has some potential, because its actually being designed/redesigned by people who (theoretically) have passion/talent for design. However, the constraints of the engine may limit them, we will see. 

I am not trying to flame or generalize or imply that people who enjoy playing E:WoM that they have bad taste. I am simply saying that the game has lots of potential but it isn't reaching anywhere near its full potential because the design is flawed. 

There would be if the orginal was good and the expansion added/removed/changed stuff people liked, but currently there is not enough to like to really care.

At least Age of Wonders II had a decent campaign going for it when Shadow Magic came out...

Glad to hear it isn't just me who has been very disappointed and very bored of eWom. Lots of potential just no vision. I hope FE will be what eWom was hoped to be.

In some ways it will, in others it will not. Some of the ideas that were not impemented in WoM will be removed/reduced in scope (specifically the empire building).

I really hate to say it, but I agree with most of the OP, and the lists by leeboy & tim4fun. This is officially my favorite catagory of game, I was in the beta from the start and I'm determined to beta EWom & FE to the bitter end, but frankly, MOM & Shogun 1 are more fun.

To add 1 more issue that's really been bugging me lately, too many battles that are too slow & boring, and slow down the game.  I'll post more on combat issues elsewhere.

Lets be honest, we will not see fun elemental game for very long time, if ever. I mean the game is out for already about half a year and it is not more fun than it was in the beginning, only more stable.

Somehow SD missed the fun part. The game is only shadow of what was promised. The quests are boring. The world, the one that suppose to have history, is boring. There is very little to do in developing your kingdom. You just browse around and have random fights...

The game misses... the game part. There is no fundamentally interesting game-play. No one more turn feeling.

I do not know why is that. It is not some particular thing, it is EVERYTHING, that is not fun, the whole package.

Thank you so much guys.
I thought it was just me that had not understood this game.

Should have read through this forum before I stupidly bought this game 3 days ago.

I had so much confidence in Stardock from before that I thought WoM would have been good now that it has been out for a while.
It is simply booooooring.

The premise of he game had so much potential

But here I stand wih no interest in playing this game ever again.

It seems uninspired and rushed.

Oh well, back to HOI3 for me.

I think with the changes planned in 1.3, WoM will be a fun game.  I really don't think that the game really needs a lot to be "fun".  It just needs to be more interesting and dynamic.  And some balance.  It looks like they are going to add things and make changes that will help that in 1.3.  I might be blindly optimistic and biased, due to being Brad's baby mama, but I really think that 1.3 has the chance of being the WoM I wanted. That's right "I" wanted...who cares what you guys want, Brad makes these games for me!