How does losing/scrapping research structures work exactly?

from Sins Forums

In a recent game with friends I decided to scuttle a Vasari military lab after doing the Kostura Cannon research so I could make space for a different Logistics structure. However, later on, I was surprised to find out that I couldn't build a Cannon even with the research without rebuilding the 8th military lab. Are ship/structure techs the only things that work like this or do passive improvements to ships, economy and the like stop "working" as labs are lost as well?

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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Here's any easy way to generalize it. If you need to build it, then you need the labs. This includes Frigate and Planet Modules with Research Access requirements. With Entrenchment there a few odd ball research subjects that don't follow this guideline.

Frigate Access: All frigates requiring research must have labs to build

Planet Module Access: All modules requiring research must have labs to build

Ability Access: Some abilities require labs such as Vasari Deploy Star Base and Gauss Defense Missle Burst

Squad Access: Advent Mine Layers require labs

Orbital Cannons (Super Weapons): Will not fire without the appropriate tier labs. The ability is tied to the research subject for these weapons.

All other research should work even if the labs are destroyed or scuttled.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quite simply, it depends on a certain line in the raws.

But, in general, you can still use stuff that you have, except building abilities (superweapons, repairbays), and starbase constructors.

but you can never build things that require more labs than you have.

Everything passive is permenent.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

It's funny how the loss of a research lab causes the crewmen aboard a superweapon to forget how to press the big red "Fire!" button, but somehow it does.  It's been suggested that the loss of that 8th lab means that the faction no longer has the ability to process the highly advanced materials needed for the superweapon's ammunition.  (But couldn't they just have a stock of it?  Do they need a special delivery every time they want to fire the weapon?)

In normal game play, you would end up losing that crucial 8th lab from an attack and not from scuttling (self-sabotage).

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

It is more of a game dynamic than why does the gun need the lab. This would cause players to build their 8 labs, then scuttle them all to open up the slots for other structures. That would suck and I would consider that cheating.  :thumbsdown:

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting DirtySanchezz, reply 3
It's funny how the loss of a research lab causes the crewmen aboard a superweapon to forget how to press the big red "Fire!" button, but somehow it does.  It's been suggested that the loss of that 8th lab means that the faction no longer has the ability to process the highly advanced materials needed for the superweapon's ammunition.  (But couldn't they just have a stock of it?  Do they need a special delivery every time they want to fire the weapon?)

In normal game play, you would end up losing that crucial 8th lab from an attack and not from scuttling (self-sabotage).
There is a stock. It's just always on the lab you lost.

 

:fox:

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting myfist0, reply 4
It is more of a game dynamic than why does the gun need the lab. This would cause players to build their 8 labs, then scuttle them all to open up the slots for other structures. That would suck and I would consider that cheating. 

It wouldn't be cheating at all since everyone could do it.  It would just be a different game dynamic.  It does make some sense, though, and gives opposing players a strategic interest in putting a priority on knocking down the military labs.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

There is a stock. It's just always on the lab you lost.

That's funny.  Good answer.  The special material needed for the long distance shell just happens to always be on that 8th lab.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I am pretty sure that if I blew up Los Alamos after they made Fat Man and Little Boy it would be a long long time before they could make another. Chances are they could not again because I killed all there top scientists.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

There's always a bit of hand-waving going on.  How you interpret it is up to you.

Generally speaking, the only case where there is an practical application of scuttling is for ice/volcanic planet colonization.  This enables you to build two civic labs near the start of the game, unlock these upgrades, then scuttle the labs and replace them with military.  This enables you to go pure-military from the start while still being able to access all planet types.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

For the Vasari in particular, any labs that are using Phasic Barrier behave as if they weren't there (that is, if you have 8 labs and one of them uses Phasic Barrier, it is as if you have 7 labs until the 8th lab phases back in).

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting InfiniteVoid, reply 10
For the Vasari in particular, any labs that are using Phasic Barrier behave as if they weren't there (that is, if you have 8 labs and one of them uses Phasic Barrier, it is as if you have 7 labs until the 8th lab phases back in).

Thats a good point. It's subtle and doesn't happen often but can temporarily shutdown someones military labs with a couple of different abilities. Though destroying them seems simpler ;P

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

I think in beta there is a bug regarding novaliths and required labs.

Guy build 5 novaliths in MP then either crashed or left. Doesnt matter really after 1 lab was destroyed he had only 7 mil labs build (did watch reply) AI was still firing novas. I assume they were set on autocast.....

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Sorry for the post on the more or less dead post, hoping someone will respond. Wanted to clarify and confirm that anything that is a passive upgrade such as High level SB improvements, high level economy upgrades ie (pervasive economy and the like), high level culture upgrades (Im thinking allure) will all stay in effect if you scrap the required labs? This could make the case for a quick tech up on a maxed out desert planet followed by scrapping and converting to trade once you have all the research you need...

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

yes, they do stay in effect

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

...and it is all Ryat's fault--really.