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A Petition for the end of Good and Evil in this Game.

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A Petition for the end of Good and Evil in this Game.

from Elemental Forums

I mean, come on guys, the division of factions into generic Good and Evil is just derivative and lazy. Every "Evil Empire" in history has had some semi-believable justification (for them) for world domination.

So, the entire set of Empires in this game that destroy the land for no tangible benefit just doesn't fly for me, and I suspect many other people. Even the Nazis had a psuedo-scientific philosophy as to why they were right and other governments were wrong, even if they were extremely misguided. (As they were obviously, as my wonderful Jewish girlfriend is proof).

Having one half of the factions in the game as completely unsypathetic does not help me enjoy the game at all. I'll admit that there is a notion of social Darwinsim for the Empires that is cursory and undeveloped and possibly has potential, but please please develop this further for FE. It takes minimal work, and adds to the ambience of the game.

Seriously, generic Good vs. Evil is for children. Let's have a a mature concept of competing world views for the next go-round.

elemental
40,087 views 58 replies
Reply #51 from Elemental Forums Top

I think the reason people think the Empires are evil was because of the art style. It's something I've requested changed in Fallen Enchantress.

The Night Elves in Warcraft aren't evil but could have been presented that way with different art choices.

Reply #52 from Elemental Forums Top

Good n evil...very subjective terms.

I usually play Kindgoms and kill all heros after the first three I bring in, and always being war with any sovereign I may encounter.

So needless to say, in all my evilness, my kingdom doesn't last very long.

x_x

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Reply #54 from Elemental Forums Top

@Frogboy

I think the reason people think the Empires are evil was because of the art style. It's something I've requested changed in Fallen Enchantress.

No. I don´t mind the art style. The one thing that really carries this sense of evilness is the spoiling of the land.
It is as Tridus put it ironically on the last page:

"Here we have people who corrupt the land in an obviously evil and twisted way. I can't possibly imagine why anybody would then conclude that these people are evil."

And that´s about it.
Someone who drains the life from the land will generally be considered to be evil.
Any changes to the art style won't mitigate that impression.

Reply #55 from Elemental Forums Top

Someone who drains the life from the land will generally be considered to be evil.

Any changes to the art style won't mitigate that impression.

As far as I know, there are no mechanics (besides the friendly territory bonus) or lore references to "draining the lands." So, when the art is removed, it doesn't really exist anymore, does it?

Reply #56 from Elemental Forums Top

i think one of the reason's i think the fallen are evil is how in the book destiny's embers the sion is looking at everything around him as a source of food for his powers O:)   

Reply #57 from Elemental Forums Top

@LoA: In this case it´s not simply the art that would have to be removed, it would be the whole mechanic.
As I had suggested, this spoiling/replenishing could simply be replaced with some "guardian of the realm" spell, or something.

@Glowing_Ember: I haven´t read the book and haven´t even begun to play the campaign; the background lore thus doesn´t concern me.

Reply #58 from Elemental Forums Top

My biggest problems with the 'good vs. evil' stuff flow from the fact that the game metaphysics shrank during development, rather than growing to become a functional and fun part of the game. Because the magic system is as flavorless as prison food, there's no meaningful, engaging difference between the two sides of the Life/Death element--except perhaps for the hardcore competitive types. The Life/Death element has ended up like Pluto, demoted from one of 5 (or 6) Elements to a word in a title for a random-feeling bucket of spells. Hell, the 'normal' elements feel far less Elemental now than they did in the first betas with magic.

As to ditching the art that shows a very different habitat for Empires vs. Kingdoms, I hate the idea because I want that distinction to be worked into the magic system, diplomacy, and dynasty stuff. If Kingdoms and Empires can intermarry, we need to know how that fits into a schema where the opposing sides have significantly different ideal habitats. That competing habitat notion is nothing new to SF literature or TBS games. The reason the good-vs-evil/ugly-vs-pretty terrain thing drives so many people batty in Elemental WoM is that there was almost no follow-through on the bullet points from 2009. To players with even moderate interests in the content side of games, it's 'an unfinished feature.'