I wouldn't have been...

The problem was not the dumbing down DESPITE the engine: the problem was the dumbing down BECAUSE the engine was unable to do anything.

That's perhaps the core of the Elemental problem: they wanted to develop a new game while, at the same time, developping the critical technology (the engine) necessary for the game to run.

Research & Development always meet unexpected roadblocks. Trying to do R&D needed for a project while working on the project needing it almost always lead to postponements and cost overruns. One of the worst examples would be NASA's X-33 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_X-33)

"But, after the composite tank failed on the test stand during fueling and pressure tests, NASA came to the conclusion that the technology of the time was simply not advanced enough for such a design."

Kumquat was simply not advanced enough for such an advanced fantasy 4x-game design. Is it better now? We don't know since nobody seems wanting to answer such questions when they appear in the forums. If it's still not ready, then we can have no expectations for FE. If it is, then the Team can begin to load the game with what we're waiting for.

I think people are overly nostalgic when it comes to old games.  Lets take a game I love more than almost anything, Dark Wizard.  Dark Wizard was a tactical and strategy fantasy war game for the Sega CD.  There were quest, heroes, monsters, magic items, all that shit.  But virtually no challenge and no AI at all.  The enemies were all weak, didn't do much to actually win battles, it was fun to create and army and heroes, and things like that, but the actual combat was a joke.  Move army and slaughter.  If a game was made just like it today, with just prettier graphics, I would be pissed and disappointed in it.  Have my expectations grown crazy high?  Maybe.  What was my point?  Not sure, but damn, Dark Wizard was a cool ass game.  Remake that game, Stardock!

Agree with LX.  I couln't get into MoM for long as once you got to Paladins it was game over.  Just like EWoM, once you get certain level of armor and weapons your tanks/champions are unstoppable. 

That being said, I really liked, and still do, the first Master of Orion.  And the first XCOM.  They ain't too pretty by today's standards, but they are fun games that can be challenging and have that "just one more turn" quality that wears well over time, IMHO.

But I'm a guy that is still amazed that my cursor moves at the touch of a mouse

Strangley enough, I tend to agree with this.  I have gone back and bought some games off GoG and my interest in the game turns to remember fun, but not current play fun.  The only game I have still enjoyed is MOO II.  Lords of the Realm, Xcom, MoM, and even my personal favorite XCom-2, "Terror from the Deep," was not a fun revisit.  A MoM remake I wouldn't like I think.  The problem is, I see PC's today and think, "Considering the increase in, 'abilities,' for PC's these days, there is so much more they could do with old games."  I see MoM in this light.  I went back and thought, there was a lot here, but it was very limited in scope.  It was just maximized for the PC at the time.  I would also hazard a guess that the older 4X games are more tactical battles with a strategic metagame of overlay.  I generally see the strategic layer as a method to affect and win battles which was the primary focus of winning the game.  Diplomacy or trade may have been routes in winning, but they tend to be less developed.  I find the diplomacy isn't much without the ability to fight.  Of course, why would any one put up with diplomacy or even bother listening to it if they can just squish another or absorb them.

At any rate, tatical combat I saw as the primary focus.  Elemental really doesn't have this.  It as a strategic layer and a psuedo-tactical combat layer that I feel are not very refined.  I was just thinking a while ago about their weapons.  We have blunt, piercing, and slashing.  I see this parallel to missiles, lasers, kinetic.  The the appropriate armor types in EWoM correspond to ECM, shields, and armor.  It's like GalCiv 2 except I get to actually move the set pieces.  Not real skippy.

I wouldn't, TBH. I've shelved it and pretty much moved on. It seems unlikely at this point that it'll ever be the game that we thought it'd be.

That's not to belittle the effort SD is putting into fixing it, because they should be commended for that... but realistically it has so far to go and so many limitations that are apparently engine related that they're handcuffed.

I guess there's a lesson in there about building an engine and a game on a limited budget, and rather vastly overselling the game on the forums before release.

Double post

For me buying the game now is like investing. There is no game like the game that Elemental wants to be. But among all the groups/companies that could make such game, Elemental team is the one closest to achieve such objective.

You can wait for other company to make that game (unlikely) or you can invest in Elemental hoping to get the return of your investment later in the form of the game you want.

Is like investing in anything else. You put your money, then forget about it and wait patiently. If you did a good investment, after some time, you get your reward.

I am confident we all will receive our reward.

Was waiting for the demo (that was promised after 1.1 update) to help me decide...but look like Stardock is not really interested in releasing it.

I think the general gist/understanding now is that WoM is unable to redeemed significantly because of its extremely poor (in most respects) beginnings, so they don't really want to advertise it any more than necessary, even if it has been improved a bit.  However I would be curious as to whether they decide to make a demo before FE.

Best regards,
Steven.

I don't know if it's completely irredeemable, but there are some major flaws in its design that have not been addressed.  Mainly that land has no use and is of little importance.  Games like Civ and Alpha Centauri, each spot of land could be mined or farmed, etc, but unless this has a special resource, its worthless.  Secondly, the Tactical battles.  Fundamental flaws still exist in how the AI attacks in combat, they can be kited easily.  Also, the battles lack the basicsof tactical combat, range of weapons, meaningful terrain, interesting maps, and zone of control.  There are numerous other flaws, but I find those the most glaring and fundamental.  I think that these might be unchangeable, but I think they can be polished and tweaked, along with the other flaws in the game, like equipment issues and strategic AI problems, along with overall world blandness and the game could still reach an A level status.

Agree!

At least I'll be getting FE for free. We'll see then if I put on my fanboy cap which I bought in anticipation of EWOM!

I almost think E:WoM would be better off if they stopped trying to fix it and instead devoted their energy into making it into a modding platform, then leaving it for the community to fix. There's just so much balance problems and loose ends, but the core engine is full of possibility. Best case scenario we could end up with a dozen awesome variations of Elemental while SD continues to improve the engine and tools. I haven't given up hope that the game will be turned around, but the light at the end of the tunnel seems a far ways off yet.

I thought they were basically doing that with FE, devoting their energy into making major changes for a re-release. Then I read in the annual report that they plan to backport some of the FE changes into EWoM for people who don't like FE, and its like... WHY?

I'll second that.  I picked up Distant worlds when it was first released, played for about 2 hours then put it down in disappointment.  About a month ago I decided to give it another shot with Return of the Shakturi and man oh man am I glad I did, the game is awesome, right at the top of my list for 4X games (and I've played a tonn).  Should tide me over until Fallen Enchantress comes out, been waiting for Elemental to coalesce into a great game since Beta.

My 'neutral' guess is that it's some mixture of defense for the brand and Stardock's tendency to bond with players/customers, plus an interest in maximizing returns on the FE labor investments.

My pessimistic guess is that it's because FE is going to be like a dish with a classic French sauce--superficial extravagance hiding the poor quality of basic ingredients.

My hopeful guess is that I'm really missing something about the plan because, like you, I don't quite get how the standalone FE talk meshes with backport talk. Mind you, I think better of a fart in the wind than I do of the game-biz-buzz sites, so maybe there's some Important News out there that I've some how missed while poking around here.

I like the smell of my own farts. The sulphur content is just right. 

I haven't read the last book yet, so as far as I know, Moiraine is still dead. Dead or alive, I'm sure she'd look down her nose at that sort of remark. What Nynaeve might say or do in response, I shudder to think...

Nynaeve just puts on her dominatrix Tower garb and gives a good spankin'. Moiraine always just laid there like a dead fish. Doh!

On a serious note, the last book was great. I won't spoil it for you but Mat, Thom, and Noal (I won't tell you who he really is) paid the foxes and snakes a visit.

Well, I'm new here, having just purchased the game this week.

Like you, I was put off by early reviews.  I'm an older gamer, having spent more time then I care to think about hoping someone would take on Masters of Magic.  After about a week of gameplay, I can say that this is the best fun I've had in a long time.  In many ways I've found it a more satisfying game than Civ V.  I'm only regretting not buying it sooner.

So far I have had no problems with bugs.

The gameplay is classic in it's scope and ambition.

The early game is fiendishly difficult, and that's refreshing.  I did find the end game a little easy, but that's the snowball effect you expect in a strategy game where the computer doesn't seem to "cheat".

Bob "G. Bob" Roland

Go read it. Right now!

Be sure to check out the mods! The community of modders (thank you all!) is doing a wonderful job with content while the devs iron out problems with the engine and basic mechanics. I haven't played a mod since 1.11 because I've been checking out the patches.

Anyway - here's a link to the mods forum. They're worth it!

https://forums.elementalgame.com/forum/756