Elementary Comparisons

Apples to Ambrosia

from Elemental Forums

Ever since it was announced as the spiritual successor to Master of Magic, Elemental: War of Magic has been anticipated almost as much as the second coming of the Messiah, and with expectations to match. This statement was a double-edged sword, no, a double-edged +5 Keen Adamantine Great Sword with Massive Criticals. That single statement was a complete marketing campaign in and of itself, and drew the masses of reclusive super nerds out of the cryostasis they had placed themselves in, frozen in waiting for this very announcement. At the same time however, it set the bar beyond realistic reach, hovering in the skies like the once great Empire of Netheril, and it too in waiting for the inevitable fall.

But how is it that this doom was set in stone from the beginning, as an inescapable fate? Is it that no sequel can be as good or better than the original? Certainly not. We have been proven wrong on this, and from this very same developer. Of course, you all know I'm referring to Galactic Civilizations II. And neither is it the exception to a rule, as we have Master of Orion II, Baldur's Gate II, Age of Wonders II, Tribes 2, etc., all roughly on par with or exceeding their first installments.

If not that then what? Is it that Stardock is incapable of making great PC games? Also no, with the above example also serving here. Many other possibilities can be speculated here, and some may even be a contributing factor, but I think it is this one major insurmountable obstacle that, for the moment, will serve to strip Elemental of its colour, so that it pales by comparison.

Master of Magic is a great game, and has many wonderful (and otherwhere well documented) features that make it so. However, as a widely popular and beloved classic, it has something that no new game can ever have while it is still new - Nostalgia. This is how it is with most of the classics for many people I think. This nostalgic effect is compounded even further if the game was played in one's youth, when they didn't have the cares they have now, before the ancient mythological Greek Gods sent them two spaces forward as sacrificial pawns to the world's relentless and unrelenting grindstone that doesn't relent.

Does this mean that Elemental in it's current form would be a contender for Master of Magic if not for nostalgia? Well, would Don Flamenco have taken the championship belt if it wasn't for Mike Tyson? I mean, he could dance, but I don't think that would have helped his case any. I still have faith that Elemental will eventually be content-filled and polished (I'm so sick of that word), but in the meantime it's not there yet, hence all the kids* in these forums posing that question that is normally asked during long trips.

So, how to combat nostalgia? Unit abilities (sorry, couldn't resist). No, I think the only way to go about doing this is by using scale, and large proportions of it. Throw mana around like it's desalinated water. Change pigeons to dragon-pigeons. If the player is zoomed in when someone throws a fireball, have the firespray or ash hit the camera. Allow over-the-top power levels like in the Dragon Ball series. Charlie has a broken arm? Give him an enema.

Obviously, those are all ridiculous suggestions, as is my wont, but for a general idea of what I'm getting at, I say shake the earth, crack open the heavens, sunder the fabric of the universe, call the void, empty the oceans, upheave the lands, plunge into the abyss, harness the stars.... and if you can, build an empire in the meanwhile.

 

*Just used for example, and not meant to be condescending or critical.

elemental
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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

So, how to combat nostalgia?
End of quote
You ignore it and value things for what they are (or could be by themselves) and not for what others are/were. Easier said than done but there is it.

Even if you were to ignore the nostalgia for game X, Elemental would still have its flaws and we would still get people annoyed that this is not and won't be MoM 2. Myself, right now, only see myself playing MoM again because of nostalgia.

Oh, maturity is based on selfcontrol of instincts so that doesn't mean people stops being kids. They are just more "self controlled" kids. :P

It's going to be very interesting when Stardock starts Gal Civ III. They are going to need a better and improved fireproof vest because the Inquisition (International in this case) is going to be out there to hunt them down if they dare to sneeze.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top


So, how to combat nostalgia? Unit abilities (sorry, couldn't resist). No, I think the only way to go about doing this is by using scale, and large proportions of it. Throw mana around like it's desalinated water. Change pigeons to dragon-pigeons. If the player is zoomed in when someone throws a fireball, have the firespray or ash hit the camera. Allow over-the-top power levels like in the Dragon Ball series. Charlie has a broken arm? Give him an enema.

End of quote

 

Cheap oneupsmanship based on cheap polish won't work. Sure, it's cool... the first few times, but honestly, after playing 6 hours, people just don't notice it (or it gets annoying). Instead, once the "Ooh shiny!" phase runs its course, all that is left is the gameplay. Say you play GalCiv2 and see a screenshot... do you think "Wow, galactic empire... shiny ships... oh maybe I can build like a giant Death Star! And woe green skinned alien space babes!" or do you think "Wow, that guy has royally screwed up his economy. And what's up with stacking that many lasers? He'd better be sure the other guy isn't stacking shields because that planet over there is undefended." Cheap pops only last 5 seconds - good gameplay lasts much longer.

 

It also results in a bad vicious cycle because instead of trying to do something good, you end up focusing on BIGGER THAN THE LAST TIME. That sort of tunnel vision -hurts- creativity. It takes away attention from the problem at hand. You can toss as many nuclear explosions into God of War as you want... but ultimately, the game is a hack n' slash button masher and no amount of explosions will change that; the designer still needs to make pressing the same 4 buttons interesting.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

@sagittary

If I were to look at a screenshot of a fantasy/sci-fi strategy game I play and automatically start thinking about economy and number of weapons stacked, I would have to then research the different methods of suicide, choose the most embarrassing one and subject myself to it.

OK, that's going a bit far, but for this kind of entertainment, for me it's more about the feel of it. Does it immerse? Is it deep and rich? Does it scale to epic? Is there a plethora of avenues to explore? Is there a great variety of techs, units, weapons, spells, victory conditions. Are the different types of content distinct from each other? Do the factions play differently (ala Starcraft or Battle Realms for example).

If there is a solid and balanced strategy game with cunning AI under the hood, all the better, but I would prefer to be able to do a lot of big things over having to make tough decisions between fewer and smaller things against a difficult opponent. Then again, I can only speak for myself in that regard.