I do not and will not ever subscribe to the idea that expansions should be used to fix problems with the original game. That is what patches are for. Expansions add content, not just some paid fix for borked up inventory systems that games years older seemed to get right. You should never try and push your customers to by add ons to fix things. It's bad business and despite the long rant we got about TQ dying from piracy, I think it was ultimately the decision of consumers not to buy their BS or half-ass game.

TQ did not add much to the Diablo type genre, and in fact, at release it took several steps back for every half-step forward. D2 was a perfectly fine, fun game without it's expansion by the way.

Well it's a fine line, because no matter how great a change is there will always be a vocal group of fans who thinks the change really sucks (you see the blizzard boards after even the most popular and needed World of Warcraft change). But of course not every change is great and sometimes those people are right and it really does suck. The trick is figuring out the difference, and that's much easier said then done. So I think fan feedback is great, but it should also be taken with a grain of salt.

Holy crap, that armor looks familiar.  I know why, it looks like it belongs in a Dynasty Warriors game!

While part of what you say is true, there is a fine line. I am thinking SE might be reconsidering their position of not giving a crap some customer feedback as their multi-million dollar games wind up missing almost all their goals.

I suspect that key thing is to pay attention to the feedback of your beta testers and people like that who have actually played the game and seen how everything works, rather then that of random people on your forums who haven't actually played the game.

True, however there is something to be said for all feedback - if someone has an issue, it's important to understand their concern and weight them against your vision before dismissing them.  When creating a new instalment in a popular franchise, like Final Fantasy or Diablo, the name carries a certain pre-built concept with it.  For Final Fantasy, and I'm speaking broadly here, it's about exploring a large world, meeting and talking with memorable characters during the course of an interesting and engaging plot and an in-depth battle system.  With Diablo, it's that Loot Arms Race gameplay that everyone copies and the Gothic Horror, that's uniquely 'Diablo'.
Re-booting, or re-imagining a franchise, isn't unheard of.  Resident Evil 4 is a pretty good example of how to do it right, as it changed so much and yet still feels Resident Evil.  The die-hard fans, of course, are unhappy with the change, however it's widely regarded as the best in the series and, funny enough, one of the best games ever made.  Then look at Resident Evil 5 - widely considered inferior in every regard and regarded by most Resident Evil fans as the worst in the numbered series.  Residente Evil 4 changed the core gameplay mechanics, yet maintained that Resident Evil B-Movie Horror atmosphere that worked so well.
Changing gameplay mechanics isn't the issue Diablo Fans have - hell, I'm downright excited by some of the changes - however, it's that Gothic Horror and deadly serious atmosphere that makes Diablo what it is, and it's that atmosphere that's missing from just about everything Blizzard has shown.

They haven't really shown much.

True, however Extended Gameplay Sequences (available on YouTube) and hundreds of screenshots are a pretty good indication of the final product.  If not, then why bother showing them at all?

Yeah, Blizzard isn't the company that listens to concerns. Blizzard is the company that follows its own vision, successfully.

So they're changing aspects of the game. There is only one reason for doing so: they want higher sales. If you bought several copies of D2 and you are now expressing concerns of how the D3 game will be different and it shouldn't be, and you're on forums raging about it - that's the very essence of a sense of entitlement. You think the company owes you something, but they owe you nothing.

Realize and understand that when a company like Blizzard says they're not interested in feedback regarding X, then it's time for you to move on. Not dig in deeper.

PS. In case you didn't get it, D3 is just as much a sequel to WOW as it is to D2, in terms of target audience. They want WOW players to buy it, they want D2 players to buy it - but if they have to CHOOSE, they'll take WOW players any day. So while a "fan" might have bought several D2 copies (hell, I even did that), you are but a drop in the ocean compared to the WOW customers.

Edit: Just to be clear: Blizzard in a nutshell: follow the money. Anything else would be a betrayal of their owners. This might not work for every company! But it sure as hell has worked for Blizzard.

Heavenfall has a good point, its obvious when you think about it. They want D3 to be bought by WoW players, D2 players, Titain Quest players, torchlight players (theres lots of overlap here but still) and every one else they can.

Generally going with bright colours is a safe bet right now (brown is real can get your metacritic down a couple of percent atm).

and now you just being silly...

Of course I played Diablo 2, more hours than I can count, and what you say just proves my point, you can have a lush and "tropical" setting and still have a very dark atmosphere which D2 had in spades. it's not about the environment you use it's how it's directed and portrayed.

This new art direction just looks like a cartoon, and thats hilarious considering the age of it's predecessor. It is obvious the original Diablo team is long gone at this point. Personally I am not looking forward to Isometric WOW. If you are more power too you. I'll be off playing real games. How many years are these two games apart? I would say at this point D2 actually looks better. Laughable....

It also seems that many of you played TQ and not the immortal throne. The wonders that expansion did for that game was amazing. (oh and don't forget the mods) I don't think your really qualified to comment on the game unless you did honestly.  You didn't experience all it had to give. I'd urge you to give it a shot if you yearn a hack and slash. Again I didn't like TQ, but IT was superb.
It wasn't necessarily fixing broken content, It was just a text book expansion pack that vastly improved the on the original game, and addressed most of the faults the original version had. This is what the best expansions achieve! How about GALCIV2? You wish TOTA never happened? Please.  If we got more of this type of content for games these days instead of the trickle of un-imaginative DLC  the game industry would be in a better place. I mourn Ironlore....

Really the same argument that immortal throne's content being in TQ's original release could be said for Diablo 2 and LOD. Add to that any game that vastly improves on the original version, lets throw Super Streetfighter 4 into the mix too shall we? Lets just say no games should ever have expansions or improve on the original concept shall we? Is this really a bad thing? You would prefer just a bunch of content adding nothing to the game other than more gameplay hours? .... uhh yeah no thanks, fresh and interesting is good.

If you think that every game should come out perfect, then you are a little out of touch with how the gaming industry works, You realize how much it costs to make these things these days? Some times stuff has to get pushed out to keep the company in business and start making some money so they are able to continue to improve the game.

How about Stardock just cease all patches and updates on elemental? Instead just copy and paste expansion content  without fixing the games inherent problems? As much as the original game should have been better, The current situation is by far preferable. (even though they are a unique situation)

It's seems people are really grasping at straws for arguments in this thread now, so I will leave it at that. I see Blizzards indoctrination of the gaming populace continues unperturbed...

as you were.....

After the half-assed job Iron Lore did on Dawn of War: Soulstorm, I don't mourn them.  If Relic had handled it themselves instead of working on DoW2, it would have turned out much, much better.

Yeah WoW is becomming the base of every damn new thing; look at D&D 4th edition; if that`s not 'MMO, the pen&paper RPG' then I dunno what is.

Demon Hunter is the new class in diablo 3 just got the info from blizcon

Well really it's just that a lot of games have been embracing the concept of clearly defined class roles, where one class is designed to absorb damage, one to deal it, etc. This is something that has been around to some extent since the beginning, they key difference is that the role of the "tank" type class whose job it is to protect the more fragile characters has expanded a lot in recent games to involve more tools to prevent the opponents from running around them to attack someone else.

Regarding D&D, 3rd edition also had lots of people complaining that it was obviously designed to appeal to computer game players. I'm sure 2nd edition would have as well if there had been online web forums back then. Computer gamers aren't the only ones who hate and fear change to their favorite brands.

Oh snap you're right.

http://kotaku.com/5670979/diablo-iii-gets-a-demon-hunter-class?skyline=true&s=i

I dunno about that..I mean I survived the THAC0 years..who can boast such claim?...or want to go back to it...Oh God the debates!

But yeah- the typical MMO classes seems to be the norm- I suppose it`s part lazyness from the devs, part easy-does-it: I mean just put whatever type of character, and put Tank/healer/ranged DPS/melee DPs and people will get it: no need for a paragraph or two about what type of char does what.

Its not WoW.  Remember that WoW did almost nothing new: those roles were already well established in the generation of MMORPGs before WoW.  Its just a pet peeve of mine that so many people attribute so much to WoW when it really didnt start the vast majority of those ideas.

Thats my real problem with all this: I thought that a lot of RPG conventions were a bit old when WoW came out.  And Wow just took old conventions and made them even more set in stone.  Its gotten really old, but there are enough new players who arent sick of that crap yet and its not going to go away any time soon.

Yeah, no wonder I stopped playing most 'redux' games: 'New' World of Darkness, D&D 4th, shadowrun 4th edition....the only game who seems to have passed the 4th ed mark without crapping all over was Call of Cthulhu, and even then it was just diffrent art and typo correction more than a whole re-doing of the system, which is why it`s the one of the rare game where everyone can have a diffrent edtion and we`ll still be able to play a game.

And saying WoW invented it all is because they`re the biggest, most successful of it`s kind: everyone remembers the Wright Brothers, who recalls What`s-his-name in England who flew in the air 10-20 years prior to them? 'least that`s my take on the matter.

I survived the days when the Dungeon Master's Guide had a random prostitute table.....

I don't think class roles are laziness, I think it's good game design.  Designing a class with a general role in mind that he is supposed to perform helps game balance, which is a very important thing in pen and paper games. And why shouldn't you tell your players what that role is intended to be? Classes do still have a paragraph or two (or more often three or four) about what that type of character does.

I don't mind class roles at all either. I mean skill based or class based, those design choices in itself would not deter me from a game. There are plenty of other areas in the game for them to fk up a perfectly good idea anyway.

Trailer is out on 1UP looks cool but the game play is more of hack and slash from what they are showing. I will end up buying it but Blizzard is not the same company that it was when 2 came out. I am expecting it to play like Diablo 2.5. Lowered expectations keep me from having an aneurysm when hyped games don't go as planed! 

I want to believe the Demon Hunter will be more like a European Witch hunter....but DAMN me if that doesn't sound like Warcraft fan service if I've ever heard it.

Based on his decriptions, he sounds a bit like a combination of the Amazon and Assassin from Diablo 2.