cordell9

Attn: Stardock Devs, slow down we can wait

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Attn: Stardock Devs, slow down we can wait

from Elemental Forums

Ok, slow down, take a breath.

 

I understand the need to get some performance and crucial bug fixes out there I really do. Crashing games is really not good but please just slow down on the other updates. What I mean is that these patches although nice seem a bit rushed with silly things slipping through the cracks like the archery bow costs.  Those are little things that we can and will wait for.  My advice is try not to create a deeper hole by fixing 2 things but introducing 3 others.

So far after playing 1.08 I have found several bugs/errors that really could have been avoided. I won't list them here because plenty of other people are posting about this.

My point is that the vast majority of us on these forums and playing Elemental are loyal fans. We bought the game we invested our time, we aren't going anywhere. If you look at other products there are months and months of QA testing for patches just to be sure some of the small things aren't overlooked.

So I may not speak for everyone but I'm here to say, we are with you.  Stop and take a breath, there isn't a need to put everything on the table into every patch or to push out a patch once a week.  Once a month or even less would still be fine with me.  It's my personal opinion that some of the game changes need a bit more time to test out the overall repercussions.  Such as some of the talent changes or the shard changes. We aren't going anywhere, at least I'm not.  As it is I won't play much in 1.08 it just feels a bit rushed to me, but i will certainly try 1.09 and 1.1 and every other patch after that.

 

elemental
28,268 views 44 replies
Reply #26 from Elemental Forums Top

actually, I'm rather certain the "markup" is already in place with 3X, 10X, and 25X ... I mean, since its higher than 1.5X ... it's more of a markup than the 50% with Gold.

;)

 

//

Gold has a 50% mark-up

Materials has a 300% mark-up

Metal has a 1000% mark-up

Crystal has a 2500% mark-up

Reply #27 from Elemental Forums Top

 

Quoting VR_IronMana, reply 13


Organized wasn't patched yesterday, (I don't believe?) it hasn't changed since..heck..beta if I remember right (it's always been sov's stack moves at sovereign's movement)


It's not like they put it in yesterday, then took it out today.

 

This is exactly what they did unfortunately. Organized talent is increasing,,ok I can live with that.  Nope, on second thought we are going to remove it entirely?  huh?

Now if this would have been months with the new increased cost to get a feel for it then I would understand.  This makes sense. You make a simple change, test it for a few months. Is it still overpowered?  Yup, then ok, we really shouldnt have had it in the first place.

Now go delete all those sovereign's with the organized talent. Ohh and all your saved games too.

 

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #28 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Beerzilla, reply 16

Quoting katalist, reply 12I dissagree totally.



Updates tend to introduce new bugs, which is what the OP was hoping to avoid by not rushing them.

 

Exactly, and that is what appears to be happening here.  I can understand one or two slipping through the cracks but it seems to be more than that, or my perception is way off, which may be the case.

 

 

Reply #29 from Elemental Forums Top

I say keep the updates comming, just don't burnout!  

Thanks for all the updates, but I plan on putting the game down for 2+ weeks to play Civ V so fast updates don't mean much to me for a while.

Sammual

 

 

Reply #30 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

The idea being, you're "paying" for them to import the special elements needed to get it to you and they're adding 50% gold mark up (they're not part of your government, they're merchants).
 

I am a tyrant in my game, they will just give the weapon or I will kill them.  Just kidding, thanks for all the hard work, the patches, and staying involved in the community.

Reply #31 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 26
actually, I'm rather certain the "markup" is already in place with 3X, 10X, and 25X ... I mean, since its higher than 1.5X ... it's more of a markup than the 50% with Gold.



 

//

Gold has a 50% mark-up

Materials has a 300% mark-up

Metal has a 1000% mark-up

Crystal has a 2500% mark-up

I think Materials are worth 3 Gold each, Metal is worth 10 Gold each, Crystals are worth 25 Gold each and the Merchants make a 50% markup off the Gold valuation of the item.

Sammual

Reply #32 from Elemental Forums Top

Crystals are hardly worth 25 gold if you already have them.

And yea ... I didn't mean to *require the armory building* ... I meant a separate UI, accessible from your territory like the shop, but only accessible to OWNING FACTION controlled champions. and "building" your own weapon.

Here, in this new UI, you can store Items, and build new ones. A straight-up 1:1 build cost.

 

So yea ... no "building requirement" ... just a separate UI that is in some ways similar to the Shop, except that you pay for things with their exact cost.

IE if you have both tech and resources.

Reply #33 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Beerzilla, reply 16

Quoting katalist, reply 12I dissagree totally.

Fix as much as you can when you feel its right Brad and Stardock!
The game is already epic and fun as heck.  Keep bringing us these awesome updates!
Each update makes the game better then the previous version! KEEP EM COMING!

 

Updates tend to introduce new bugs, which is what the OP was hoping to avoid by not rushing them.

If you played Elemental at 1.0 and then play it now, there is a HUGE difference with how the game works and performs.

Every update has made the game more stable for me and mroe enjoyable, this is my personal opinion having played the game tons with each version.

Ill say it again, keep the updates coming, the game gets better each time.

Reply #34 from Elemental Forums Top

Why do you think that Materials cost 3 gold in a vacuum? In a trading situation I would never personally pay more than 1 gold for 1 materials unless there was some dire reason (like a shortage of materials that could threaten the safety of the entire nation-state).

So yea, I think that 1 material = 1 gold in value, or even less, and that the 3X is all markup.

As for crystal, my personal subjective view is that (if I have crystals), I'd buy more for 5 gold a piece. the 25 gold is the Mark up.

so yea ... subjectively, I don't think there is more than a 300% - 500% mark-up with any item.

STILL

I don't see why your asking for double mark-up.

 

Hehe ... this is really a tiny and unimportant detail, but maybe you guys with your 1.08 economies see a reason to spend more gold than necessary.

Reply #35 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting tanafres, reply 21



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 10

Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?

Yes.  In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.



I like it!  More in-line with typical costs of equipment, with a built-in cost ramp-up for the more exotic equipment (which should help with balance).

 


I don't like this idea

If you don't have the items, sure, pay the premium. If I have iron, materials, crystals, why am I paying extra for them? That is like saying buying oil in Saudia Arabia should be the same as the open market! I should be able to deduct them from my stocks and pay the blacksmith/armorer, whoever, the cost of their time and expertise if I supply the materials.

Reply #36 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Iseare, reply 11



Quoting Frogboy,
reply 2
Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.



 

Fixing the loot from monsters is all well and good, but why when the amount of G they drop is drastically reduced is the price of items at the shop for our Sov's increased, and the stats decreased?

Oak spear went from 52g to 160g? A mace is now 360g and does 6 damage?  Short sword is 300g and does 4damage? 

If that's they way it's supposed to be, I'm fine with that, but, could we have it explained, and mentioned somewhere that it is happening?  I may have missed it in the patch notes, but I don't think so. 

And the Warhammer now does 5 damage?  is it really supposed to do less than the Mace?  Just remove it if so...

Reply #37 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Blaze, reply 35

I don't like this idea

If you don't have the items, sure, pay the premium. If I have iron, materials, crystals, why am I paying extra for them? That is like saying buying oil in Saudia Arabia should be the same as the open market! I should be able to deduct them from my stocks and pay the blacksmith/armorer, whoever, the cost of their time and expertise if I supply the materials.

 

Good point. The cost increase should only make up for short falls in the requirements needed.

Or, better yet, give us an item creation method where I can take, say, 8 mats, 4 iron and make myself a sword or something, with a chance of failure/creating something useless.  Kind of like the Star Ocean games item creation.

Reply #38 from Elemental Forums Top

I personally think the guys here at SD should be cranking out the patches. Civ5 is around the corner, i have been keeping an eye on both this game and Civ5. I was a fan of Sins and Galciv. Just heard news that the FFH stand alone game was canceled and Kael and co. mentioned that they would be picking up civ5 and modding. So who knows there could be another FFH around the corner. Hope Brad and everyone can lock down this game before that happens or a lot of people will be moving towards civ5 imo.

I tried Elemental at a friends house but i am waiting until it is patched up before i make a decision to buy the game. It still seems to be lacking a lot of the polish and depth that FFH has and if it will be modded into civ5 then that will be huge competition for Elemental. I do like a lot of the core ideas for this game and i hope that the patches can keep cranking out.

 

Edit: I do have to admit the amount of attention that frogboy/brad gives to the forums is almost unheard of in the gaming community except by people that mod other games. This has impressed me greatly, keep up the good work.

Reply #39 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting kraken121, reply 38
I personally think the guys here at SD should be cranking out the patches. Civ5 is around the corner, i have been keeping an eye on both this game and Civ5. I was a fan of Sins and Galciv. Just heard news that the FFH stand alone game was canceled and Kael and co. mentioned that they would be picking up civ5 and modding. So who knows there could be another FFH around the corner. Hope Brad and everyone can lock down this game before that happens or a lot of people will be moving towards civ5 imo.

I tried Elemental at a friends house but i am waiting until it is patched up before i make a decision to buy the game. It still seems to be lacking a lot of the polish and depth that FFH has and if it will be modded into civ5 then that will be huge competition for Elemental. I do like a lot of the core ideas for this game and i hope that the patches can keep cranking out.

 

Edit: I do have to admit the amount of attention that frogboy/brad gives to the forums is almost unheard of in the gaming community except by people that mod other games. This has impressed me greatly, keep up the good work.
What corner? Today is release day for Civ V.

Reply #40 from Elemental Forums Top

Completely agree about the Armory idea. 100%

Shops could include items that the Kingdom doesn't have access to (maybe let it be one tech ahead, or let it contain the weapons researched by the most-advanced player in the current game). But the armory idea is spot-on.

Reply #41 from Elemental Forums Top

the formula is a really good idea and what i was hoping for. from a glance it looks like it will come up with higher costs than i would have aimed for, but i'm sure that quantitative balance will come in time.

as for the issues over paying high costs when you have the resources, i think the simplest issue is to add a "craft" button to the shop interface, which sells it to you at the same prices it costs your troops. then we will have proper normalising across the board.

i can see why people would want them to be a little slower yet more weighty and not require so many hot fixes. if nothing else, i find my new games keep getting disrupted so i can test the new features. but it doesn't really bother me all that much to be honest.

Reply #42 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Clawdius_Talonious, reply 39

Quoting kraken121, reply 38I personally think the guys here at SD should be cranking out the patches. Civ5 is around the corner, i have been keeping an eye on both this game and Civ5. I was a fan of Sins and Galciv. Just heard news that the FFH stand alone game was canceled and Kael and co. mentioned that they would be picking up civ5 and modding. So who knows there could be another FFH around the corner. Hope Brad and everyone can lock down this game before that happens or a lot of people will be moving towards civ5 imo.

I tried Elemental at a friends house but i am waiting until it is patched up before i make a decision to buy the game. It still seems to be lacking a lot of the polish and depth that FFH has and if it will be modded into civ5 then that will be huge competition for Elemental. I do like a lot of the core ideas for this game and i hope that the patches can keep cranking out.

 

Edit: I do have to admit the amount of attention that frogboy/brad gives to the forums is almost unheard of in the gaming community except by people that mod other games. This has impressed me greatly, keep up the good work.What corner? Today is release day for Civ V.

 

Heh, I am in China, will not get it for another week or so

Reply #43 from Elemental Forums Top

Hey! I'm in China too and downloading the demo as we speak. The full version will be available 8am Friday morning...not too long to go!

Reply #44 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10



Quoting ajax bomb,
reply 4

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.


Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?


Yes.  In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.

The idea being, you're "paying" for them to import the special elements needed to get it to you and they're adding 50% gold mark up (they're not part of your government, they're merchants).

 

Hehe, its nearly what i suggested somewhere. Cool.