Attn: Stardock Devs, slow down we can wait

from Elemental Forums

Ok, slow down, take a breath.

 

I understand the need to get some performance and crucial bug fixes out there I really do. Crashing games is really not good but please just slow down on the other updates. What I mean is that these patches although nice seem a bit rushed with silly things slipping through the cracks like the archery bow costs.  Those are little things that we can and will wait for.  My advice is try not to create a deeper hole by fixing 2 things but introducing 3 others.

So far after playing 1.08 I have found several bugs/errors that really could have been avoided. I won't list them here because plenty of other people are posting about this.

My point is that the vast majority of us on these forums and playing Elemental are loyal fans. We bought the game we invested our time, we aren't going anywhere. If you look at other products there are months and months of QA testing for patches just to be sure some of the small things aren't overlooked.

So I may not speak for everyone but I'm here to say, we are with you.  Stop and take a breath, there isn't a need to put everything on the table into every patch or to push out a patch once a week.  Once a month or even less would still be fine with me.  It's my personal opinion that some of the game changes need a bit more time to test out the overall repercussions.  Such as some of the talent changes or the shard changes. We aren't going anywhere, at least I'm not.  As it is I won't play much in 1.08 it just feels a bit rushed to me, but i will certainly try 1.09 and 1.1 and every other patch after that.

 

elemental
28,252 views 44 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't think 'slowing down' is good idea, most likely they work on normal 40hrs/personweek schedule anyway :P

However it would be good if they separated balancing, mechanics altering and bugfixes. Working on private balancing branch and releasing bugfixes patches meanwhile would be more reasonable approach, rather than dropping these quite confusing rules changes with each patch upon us to play test.

 

 

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

No offense, but how about we let the professional developers set their own pace. Offering suggestions on how to improve the game is all well and good, but telling them the method they should be using or the pace...that's just arrogance. Put another way, let the adults do their job so that we kids can play.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.

Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.

 

Yes, I will agree there were several "overpowered" things. I guess what I meant to say was to really concentrate on the QA piece for each patch so other not so loyal fans aren't turned away about some confusion in patches.

 

For example, yesterday I see the note about increasing the Organized talent cost and today I see a note about another patch removing this talent entirely.  Really I think we could have waited to have the stuff in 1.08b simply be included in 1.08.  This would have eliminated the archery cost bug and wouldn't have started a conversation about the Organized talent increase simply to have it removed entirely.

I sort of agree with the post above

However it would be good if they separated balancing, mechanics altering and bugfixes. Working on private balancing branch and releasing bugfixes patches meanwhile would be more reasonable approach, rather than dropping these quite confusing rules changes with each patch upon us to play test.

 

Maybe concentrate on the REALLY game changing fixes such as the loot farming but not so many other little things?

The other problem seems to be that most saved games and saved sovereigns seem pointless to keep after each patch so we get 1.08 load up a saved game and miss with every spell because of a known magic combat issue that doesn't happen with newer saved games.

Or maybe I should just shutup as the other poster suggests and just wait to play until 1.1

Or just use this opportunity to report the little inconsistencies to help the patch process.  nothing wrong with a little free community QA I guess.

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Nice to see the frog back in his natural habatit (i.e. forums).  I'm looking forward to v1.1.  Can't wait to see what you've been cooking up.

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

No bro, we can't wait.  Civ5 next week is likely to decimate (most likely literally, as in reduce to 1/10th), the general Elemental community.  Patches need to be consistently cranking out in order to keep Elemental relevant.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting lord, reply 7
No bro, we can't wait.  Civ5 next week is likely to decimate (most likely literally, as in reduce to 1/10th), the general Elemental community.  Patches need to be consistently cranking out in order to keep Elemental relevant.

 

That doeasn't matter. They wont know what they're missing :).

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting lord, reply 7
No bro, we can't wait.  Civ5 next week is likely to decimate (most likely literally, as in reduce to 1/10th), the general Elemental community.  Patches need to be consistently cranking out in order to keep Elemental relevant.

 

we shall see, I played all the Civ titles and they just started to get very boring. This is a much different game and I would prefer not to patch something one day and change it the next.  ie Organized talent

 

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting ajax, reply 4

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.


Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?

Yes.  In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.

The idea being, you're "paying" for them to import the special elements needed to get it to you and they're adding 50% gold mark up (they're not part of your government, they're merchants).

 

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.

 

Fixing the loot from monsters is all well and good, but why when the amount of G they drop is drastically reduced is the price of items at the shop for our Sov's increased, and the stats decreased?

Oak spear went from 52g to 160g? A mace is now 360g and does 6 damage?  Short sword is 300g and does 4damage? 

If that's they way it's supposed to be, I'm fine with that, but, could we have it explained, and mentioned somewhere that it is happening?  I may have missed it in the patch notes, but I don't think so. 

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

I dissagree totally.

Fix as much as you can when you feel its right Brad and Stardock!
The game is already epic and fun as heck.  Keep bringing us these awesome updates!
Each update makes the game better then the previous version! KEEP EM COMING!

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cordell9, reply 9



we shall see, I played all the Civ titles and they just started to get very boring. This is a much different game and I would prefer not to patch something one day and change it the next.  ie Organized talent

 

 

Organized wasn't patched yesterday, (I don't believe?) it hasn't changed since..heck..beta if I remember right (it's always been sov's stack moves at sovereign's movement)


It's not like they put it in yesterday, then took it out today.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting VR_IronMana, reply 13


 


Organized wasn't patched yesterday, (I don't believe?) it hasn't changed since..heck..beta if I remember right (it's always been sov's stack moves at sovereign's movement)


It's not like they put it in yesterday, then took it out today.

 

umm...cost for organized was doubled yesterday and it has been announced that it will be removed tonight...so...yeah.  what?

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting stethnorun, reply 3
No offense, but how about we let the professional developers set their own pace. Offering suggestions on how to improve the game is all well and good, but telling them the method they should be using or the pace...that's just arrogance. Put another way, let the adults do their job so that we kids can play.

 

I´m not a kid., but thats sooooo right. :)

 

Yes. In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.

The idea being, you're "paying" for them to import the special elements needed to get it to you and they're adding 50% gold mark up (they're not part of your government, they're merchants).

 

Thats sounds logical...

 

 

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting katalist, reply 12
I dissagree totally.

Fix as much as you can when you feel its right Brad and Stardock!
The game is already epic and fun as heck.  Keep bringing us these awesome updates!
Each update makes the game better then the previous version! KEEP EM COMING!

 

Updates tend to introduce new bugs, which is what the OP was hoping to avoid by not rushing them.

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

Quoting ajax bomb, reply 4
Quoting Frogboy, reply 2Fixing the bug in monster loot necessitated a review of the cost of weapons and such. Our primary game play changes are actually in a separate branch that will show up in v1.1 (new UI, new spell system, etc.).  But having monsters give 2000 gildar loot was game breaking and was never the intent.


Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?
Yes.  In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.

The idea being, you're "paying" for them to import the special elements needed to get it to you and they're adding 50% gold mark up (they're not part of your government, they're merchants).

 

While that's nice, I think we should be able to make the items ourself with a State-Owned armory ... (the shops being primarily for NPCs and visiting Champions).

Or in otherwords, if we have all the necessary resources, we can just use a raw resource payment within our own cities.

// Please Please Please ;)    (and of course, if we don't have all the resources we can use the Shops)

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

@Beerzilla

I think we can assume they are professional enough to know what they do. ;)

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm all for frequent updates, but when the bug that I (and others) have reported since 1.05 (the on-map city label of one of my cities changes to a foreign city) is still there, for some reason Janusk can always move 2 spaces through forests and swamps and hills (but my Sov can't, guessing it's a bug with Janusk), and the bow cost, I'm guessing QA is headed by Creed Bratton.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCewsReTg5A

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

1. Basically, if you have the resources AND the tech, you should be able to simply pay the raw resource cost ...

2. however ... if you have the Tech and not the resources, you can buy it from the shop.

3. If you don't have the Tech ... then you can buy it from a Rival's Shop that does have the tech.

 

a randomly wandering NPC with its own AI and its own treasury of GOLD would  only have the option of purchasing from a Faction shop. (or go adventuring for Items)

 

(then it would be possible to impose tariffs upon other Factions perusing your wares) ... and of course, you would need at least one of your champions in rival territory (and not at war) in order to peruse your Rival's wares (based on Tech).

Any tarriffs imposed ... the extra gold would go into the State Treasury that held the shop.

//

heck, you could also Tariff the goods bought from "free agent" NPCs

 

... so on the Diplo screen you could have a Tariff% for Faction A, B, C, D, X, and Free-Agents

heck, you could even have an additive constant-effect for Tarrif% of empires or kingdoms ... so you (if Kingdom) might want a high tariff on Empire buyers. 

Tariff sliders oh my!

//

even without tariffs, I think the Three option system is superior to ALWAYS having to buy from a Shop. (If you are a Sovereign)

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 10

Are the reductions in equipment cost significant?

Yes.  In tonight's slipstream system it's been defaulted to be a formula:

A weapon = 1.5 * gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost.

I like it!  More in-line with typical costs of equipment, with a built-in cost ramp-up for the more exotic equipment (which should help with balance).

 

:-)

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

And yes ... I do highly like the new equation for the SHOP-COST of equipment ... I just want another option than Shop-cost only.

 

Which is why I propose a Shop AND an Armory. The armory is only accessible to the Sovereign, and uses a raw-resource price ... while the Shop is open to EVERYONE and uses the proposed gold-price equation.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

If I may toss in a suggestion, please use:

 

Item cost = (Gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost) * 1.2 instead.

 

The reason for this is simple, there are items that are ridiculously cheap in materials, but high in gold, and items that are the reverse. As a result, if you just use 1.5 * gold, you get item cost that will seem pretty out of balance.

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

I already suggested being able to build items.

A special building like an armory should only be required for that if it also takes an armory to build troops with the same weapons.
Beyond that you really only need a small room to store the finished weapons.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Kalin, reply 23
If I may toss in a suggestion, please use:

 

Item cost = (Gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost) * 1.2 instead.

 

The reason for this is simple, there are items that are ridiculously cheap in materials, but high in gold, and items that are the reverse. As a result, if you just use 1.5 * gold, you get item cost that will seem pretty out of balance.

I am sure [ Item cost = (Gold cost + 3X materials cost + 10X metal cost + 25 X crystal cost) * 1.5 ] is what they are shooting for.  Frogboy does't use () then posting formulas on the forum.  *grin*

Sammual