Priorities

There has been quite a bit of talk about different things that are still being figured out, some of which will have a huge impact on the game. We have been talking about factions, races, lore, customization, and a wealth of other issues. Sometimes these have been presented in a manner that leads people to think they are somehow exclusive, when they shouldn't be. There is nothing that says we can't have a game that has deep gameplay, deep lore, and deep customization. That is what has already been presented to us. Stardock isn't going to rip out all of the existing lore and make everything generic to accommodate total open customization. It is simple a matter of priorities. 

 

So, in light of that, here are my priorities for Elemental, going forward through the Beta. I offer this as a space for everyone to offer their priority list up without the constraints of the race / faction / customization discussion. This applies to what you think should be the development priorities based on the current Beta, the current discussions, and what Stardock has stated is in store for the future.

 

Priority 1: Gameplay - Ultimately, this is what matters the most. I would argue that the vast majority of players care about Gameplay over all other issues (although this thread could prove me wrong!). Great games are great games, regardless of graphics, backstories, customization, or any other issues. That is why some people can go back and play games that are 10 or 20 years old, or play games that have barebone graphics and lore. If the game is fun to play and deep enough to invite repeated play, people will enjoy it and come back to it for years to come. Everything else just elevates the game from great to amazing. If games were cake, then the gameplay is the cake itself that forms the foundation for everything else. You can eat the icing all you like, but without the actual cake, it is just icing.

 

Stardock needs to expand and refine the core gameplay for Elemental to be truly great. The current Beta is, despite their best efforts, fun (at least for some of us). It has the basics of solid gameplay. These basics need some expansion and refinement to add real depth that will make people want to play the game again and again. We all have wish lists for what we would like in the gameplay, and there are some great ideas out there. I personally would like to see (among other things) expanded empire and city management, a fully detailed racial system, an expansion of the 'living world' concept, and an expanded unit / combat system that will allow us to design units that not only look cool but play differently based on our designs.

 

Priority 2: Lore - The game needs an interesting, detailed gameworld. People can create mods for their favorite gameworlds later, but the game needs a solid foundation to start with. Many people will ignore the backstories and lore and just focus on the gameplay or on mods for their own favorite worlds. That is fine, but there are also people who will be turned off by a generic world, and there are people who will never install a single mod. In order to create a solid game that will bring in the maximum number of players, thus ensuring commercial success, the game needs to stand on its own merits, and the gameworld will be a huge part of that. If someone doesn't carry about the backstory, the lack of a developed gameworld won't be an issue. For the thousands of gamers who do care, the lack will be felt very strongly.

 

Priority 3: Customization and Modding - I love playing and creating mods. I want Elemental to be the start of a huge, awesome community that makes all kinds of great mods and even total conversions that take the game in new directions. I want the base game, at a minimum, to allow the level of customization seen in Gal Civ and other 4x games, such as creating a custom faction that works under the same general rules as the base factions. I would love for the base game to have the Spore Creature Creator as part of the Faction and Race customization, and to have our designs have impacts on gameplay. That would be great, but isn't critical for the base game. However, I don't play or create mods for games that aren't solid games to begin with, and I doubt anyone else will either. If the core of Elemental, which is the gameplay, isn't solid, no one will stick with this game. Who wants to spend time creating content for a game that isn't fun to play?

If Priority 1 and 2 have been met, include as much of Priority 3 in the base game as possible. If not, then follow the base game up with a big expansion that will allow players large degrees of freedom to customize races, factions, units, etc.

 

These are my thoughts. I'm interested for feedback and your own priorities.

9,089 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top

1 - Diversity. Make the factions and/or races really unique and play very differently, which adds replay value. Fall from Heaven is a good example.

2 - AI. In a game designed primarily for single player, a good AI is important.

3 - Modding. The number and quality of Civ4 mods shows that allowing the modders to change as much as possible pays off. But it's not a high priority for the first release, more modding capabilities can be added in expansions.

 

Reply #2 Top

Meanwhile (1-Diversity, 2-AI, and 3-Modding) are all part of gameplay.

Modding, however, also includes art.

To talk about the rest of Art and Lore, is below the first two of these three things.

I would say that, among Art and lore, functional Art is 1st priority, fucntional Lore is 2nd priority, subjective Art is 3rd priority, and subjective Lore is 4th priority.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 2
Meanwhile (1-Diversity, 2-AI, and 3-Modding) are all part of gameplay.

Yes, but I think "gameplay" is too broad term, and it's important to define some priorities within this category.

Lore seems to be already in place (there will be even a book). Whether the diversity comes from lore or not, is not important for me. Speaking of art, the most important thing for me is that the graphics should be "clear" (not confusing the player).

Can you explain the difference between functional and subjective art and lore?

Reply #4 Top

Functional Lore is lore tied into gameplay, like well written quests/ campaigns that make sense, ect. It also means that all the characters in the world have some sort of connection to each other (even if its a 6 degrees of separation), now there will be isolated characters of course, but the main implication is that all characters are relevant and from the same world.

Subjective Lore would be extras, background information that is not related to any quests, events, items, or characters. While reading a bio, it might be hard to sift the Functional aspects of the Lore from the subjective aspects of the lore. The more the lore is tied into functionality, the more awesome it is, or rather, the more relevant the reading. However, pure background information is just subjective importance.

Example: Starcraft2: Plotlines and Subplotlines of the Campaigns are Functional Lore, as well as perhaps any lore as to why we are using Weapons X, Y, and Z instead of weapons A, B, and C. Subjective Lore would be the mini-bios of the Planets ... which just add flavor.

Functional vs Subjective art is A LOT trickier, however functional art is used to Convey game play related significance to the player. For instance, an 8-bit distinctive Zerg is just as Functionally relevant as a High Definition Zerg.

So Functional is Distinctive Art, while Subjective is "pretty" art.

FF 7 has Functional Art, Starcraft has Functional Art. The level of their subjective art SEEMS to have been at the highest quality of the time, yet its the value of their distinctive Functional Art which lends to them aging well ... other than, of course, a rabid fan base. Typically, games that do not age well either lack functional art, or lack originality.

Having various Monsters simply look like Re-skins of the same model is a sign of a Lack in Functional Art.

In my opinion, FF12 had a high quality Subjective Art, however a lower quality Functional Art. While differences between species was still noticeable, difference between races was a simple color-change. As a result, for the most part monsters simply began to get increasingly BORING. (imho)

I'd rather have FF7 graphics, or Morrowind Graphics, or Watercolor Graphics ... as long as the Functional Art serves its purpose well. Sometimes having the art more detailed can lose its original functionality. However, extremely low-tech subjective art, like in Dwarf Fortress, can limit the power to convey that is needed for Functional art ... so that most people need to complete a tutorial or two just to remember which icon represents which game element.

Basically Functional art is the unique separation and distinction of gameplay elements. As such, its usually more of a simplifying factor, and less a "Shock and Awe" factor. It would be the meat and potatoes for Gaming Art Design if I had to guess a wager.

Reply #5 Top

The current Beta is, despite their best efforts, fun (at least for some of us). It has the basics of solid gameplay.

I have trouble with this statement. I just can't see how anyone could find the public beta fun. 

There's no AI. Every faction is identical other than name. There's no lore.  There's no real diplomacy. There are no decent spells in that are "fun". Maybe I'm jaded but I just find it horrible right now.  

I'm very much looking forward to beta 3.

:)

-Brad Wardell, designer of Elemental at Stardock (aka Frogboy).

Reply #6 Top

 "Myspace" went viral when it first started not because they had an original idea or something

that no one had thought of before (all this is my personal opinion of course).  I think the

factors that made it was them selling the idea that one could make something that was

technically not there own creation, feel and seem as there own personal unique one of a kind

space (for elemental the map/Mod "MyElemental") This got the worlds attention.

Then an easy way to exchange/interact with the whole world with the same interface (AI/game

engine for elemental) yet seemingly all different hint the name "MySpace".

We are all Humans so unless we can get the game to grow with us and work for us as time passes

it is extinct before it even gets a chance to be known as those of us whom seek for challenge

that grows and adapts as we grow and adapt we move on. No one person likes the same things so

allowing the game to "seem" custom to each unique player yet still maintain a solid base

platform/foundation is sure to make Elemental a timeless classic as time goes by and technology

changes/improves.

So why should Stardock  only be a great creator of games? It can also be known for creating

great platforms for gamer communities and enabling the melding of the minds around the world.

Stardock and its team can't ever compete with the massive world wide community but by

integrating themselves into part of there world/team/community they can create as well as

enable undiscovered talents to create as well. A win, win because in the end it takes something

that actualy works for the masses whether its the fun factor, AI, Lore or whatever each

individuals reason is/ matters not so long as there is a protal/avenue for each one of them

addressed in elemental, in a good and well thought out way that makes sense and makes the game

engine work for all (Well most }:) ).


If I had to describe to you my impression of Elemental vision it would be "Quality,flexible,

fun and global" I see those should be the "priorities"

Reply #7 Top

Mymental ... :rolleyes:

 

I would rather have an actual game first ... and then the possibility to build upon it. I'd rather have a base game that can compete with the mods that are birthed from it, instead of having the mods being the only thing with a fun value.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 7
Mymental ...

 

I would rather have an actual game first ... and then the possibility to build upon it. I'd rather have a base game that can compete with the mods that are birthed from it, instead of having the mods being the only thing with a fun value.

 

This is one of the things at the heart of the matter. I believe that Elemental should be a great game, not just a great toolbox for creating mods or custom whatevers. I WANT great mods and great custom whatevers, but we need to start with a great game and then build on it.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 7
Mymental ...

 

I would rather have an actual game first ... and then the possibility to build upon it. I'd rather have a base game that can compete with the mods that are birthed from it, instead of having the mods being the only thing with a fun value.

 

 

 

Can you say MoO3?

Reply #10 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 7
Mymental ...

 

I would rather have an actual game first ... and then the possibility to build upon it. I'd rather have a base game that can compete with the mods that are birthed from it, instead of having the mods being the only thing with a fun value.

Quoting Goontrooper, reply 8

Quoting Tasunke, reply 7Mymental ...

 

I would rather have an actual game first ... and then the possibility to build upon it. I'd rather have a base game that can compete with the mods that are birthed from it, instead of having the mods being the only thing with a fun value.
 

This is one of the things at the heart of the matter. I believe that Elemental should be a great game, not just a great toolbox for creating mods or custom whatevers. I WANT great mods and great custom whatevers, but we need to start with a great game and then build on it.


Exactly. Who wants to spend time developing mods and content for a game that isn't fundamentally sound and fun? I love the big mods for games like CIV IV, but those mods grew out of a game that was already very solid. If your foundation is rotten, you won't be able to build much on it.

 

That said, in an ideal world we would have an awesome game with a huge level of built-in customization and modability. I'm just hope the devs spend more time feveloping the actual gameplay before spending too much time on anything else.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5

The current Beta is, despite their best efforts, fun (at least for some of us). It has the basics of solid gameplay.


I have trouble with this statement. I just can't see how anyone could find the public beta fun. 

There's no AI. Every faction is identical other than name. There's no lore.  There's no real diplomacy. There are no decent spells in that are "fun". Maybe I'm jaded but I just find it horrible right now.  

I'm very much looking forward to beta 3.



-Brad Wardell, designer of Elemental at Stardock (aka Frogboy).

Im sure if you said you were going to release it as it is theyed soon change their tune. I think the fun comes from thinking how cool it will be when you can do this here and that there etc. It's anticipation more than anything.

Reply #12 Top

My priorities:

The first 3 are fundamental. Without them, the game fails. The 4th is necessary for immersion (and enjoyment.)

Customization and modding is really low on my list since I don't like too many options and also like set challenges. To add to that I got decision regrets.

 

 

1. Gameplay - The foundation and whole point of playing games

2. Diverse races/factions - Makes it exciting

3. A.I - Without opponents, there's little point in playing

4. Atmosphere- Music, sound effect, ambient sound, voices and graphics are important to draw me in and make me feel the game

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 5

There's no AI. Every faction is identical other than name. There's no lore.  There's no real diplomacy. There are no decent spells in that are "fun". Maybe I'm jaded but I just find it horrible right now. 

From a beta outsider like me, it sure looks horrible.