Elemental Beta 1G Preview

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Tomorrow afternoon we anticipate releasing Elemental Beta 1G. This is the last of the Beta 1 series. 

To reiterate, our betas are not your typical beta. They’re effectively alphas in that there is very little “game” there. It’s mostly about getting early adopters and us talking together about game mechanics and giving each other ideas.

I’ve written this before but in a modern TBS game, it’s 80% engine/assets and 20% “game” (in other genres it’s more like 90% engine/assets and 10% game).  So the purpose of the beta 1 series has been to just let people (and us) try out different game mechanics.  You are getting to see the sausage factory up close which – for us and our beta group is a big part of the “fun” (in a perverse way).

We will have a detailed change log but it’ll be so insanely long that it’ll be hard to tell what the big new things are.

In no particular order:

  • Random Maps (though still hard coded to small) are significantly better quality.
  • New Screen: Choose your sovereign.
  • New Screen: Create a new sovereign
    • You get 50 points to spend on:
      • improving your base stats (strength, intelligence, etc.)
      • Choosing starting spell books
      • Choosing your talents (brilliant, persuasive, hardy, diplomatic, seductive, etc.).
    • You can get points back for giving your sovereign weaknesses (unlucky, insane, cowardly, etc.)
    • Choose what your profession was prior to the cataclysm (mason, merchant, thief, adventurer, warlord, etc.)
    • You can choose whether they’re male or female (see Lorina over there who is a sovereign I created).
    • Decide what your sovereign looks like (skin, hair, clothes, equipment, colors, etc.).
    • Give them a backstory (not functional yet).
  • Official Kingdom Factions are in (Empire factions are NOT enabled)
    • Altar
    • Pariden
    • Capitar
    • Gilden
    • Tarth
  • You can create your own faction.
  • New Screen: Create your own faction.
    • Name your faction
    • Choose what race the faction comes from (race really is superficial, think race as in humans)
      • Amarian
      • Aegeon
      • Mancer
      • Krax
    • Spend points on strengths like Expert Traders, Heroic, Siege Masters, Industrious, etc.
    • Get points back by giving your faction weaknesses (arrogant, supersticious, etc.)
    • Give your faction its own look (i.e. create your own race)
  • Much Better Performance (On a scale from 1 to 10 where 10 is outstanding and 1 is ridiculous, the last beta would have been a 2 and this beta is 4. To ship, we have to get to a 10).
  • Much better memory handling.
  • Updated UI
  • Research Screen heavily updated.
  • New Economic System
    • Cities have 5 levels
      • Outpost
      • Hamlet
      • Village
      • Town
      • City
    • The base amount of money, research, spell learning and prestige is based on the city level.
      • Outpost: 0
      • Hamlet: 2
      • Village: 4
      • Town: 8
      • City: 16
    • Money is spent on upkeep based on the number of cities you have. The first city costs 0. The second city costs 1. The third city costs 2. and so forth.
    • Improvements provide a specific benefit.
      • A library provides 1 point of research per turn for instance.
    • The number of improvements is tied to the City level:
      • Outpost: 1
      • Hamlet: 2
      • ..
      • City: 5
  • Updated City Improvement Building system
    • IN the beta, outposts get 25 sub-tiles, Hamlets 30…Cities 48.  However, we plant to change this to a flat N number and instead have the limiting factor be the radius from the Keep.
    • We also plan (but not in this beta) to have certain types of improvements not require that they be connected to the keep. So a farm or a mine or a sawmill or whatever could be outside of town proper – unprotected but able to be used without having to “snake out” to it from your city.
    • We also plan (but not in this beta) to let users queue up buildings outwards and not care if they have already been build. Need the radius modifier in first.
    • Choosing improvements UI completely redone. Much much better.
    • Certain improvements will automatically upgrade to better buildings at no cost when you have the necessary tech and city level.
  • Unit Design Screen Heavily modified.
    • One of the major design goals of Elemental is that the people for your armies are coming from somewhere. To that end, when you design a unit, you start with your template which is some guy you grab from town. That means each time you design a unit, the base template guy will look slightly different. Skin tone, hair, clothing, etc. Eventually even height and weight will be slightly different.
    • The UI has been cleaned up dramatically.
  • New Screen: Magical Studies.
    • Based on what spell books you have, you can “purchase” certian spells. You purchase these with spell points.
    • Spell points are earned in your towns.
    • For the beta, we have a cap of 50 total spell points. Eventually, this cap will be based on beta tester feedback.
    • Spells all currently cost 50.
  • Magical System In
    • Spells require a combination of Mana + control of shards (Earth, Fire, Water, Air). Many spells only require mana. But the most powerful ones or ones specific to a doing a certain thing (like raising a mountain) will require control of a particular shard.
    • Beta 2 (the multiplayer beta) will determine a LOT of the spells that go in because we expect (and consider it part of beta testing) for users to engage in the cheesiest tactics they can possibly think of. 
  • New Combat System
    • A “Unit” may contain multiple individuals (A “party” of soldiers has 4 individuals in that unit)
    • An Army contains multiple units
    • Elemental doesn’t “stack” in the traditional sense. It integrates. You can put your soldiers, peasants, clubbers, heroes, etc. all in one army and they fight together as a single “unit”.
    • Each individual fights in battle.
    • A combat turn is made up of 10 rounds. The combat SPEED of the unit determines how many attacks it gets during that turn (maximum combat speed is 10 – 10 attacks in a single turn).
    • When a unit within an army attacks, the individuals in that unit all do their attack round.
    • First strike goes to the side with the highest initiative (highest combat speed) with the attacking side getting a bonus to its initiative roll.
    • We have decided on “Hit Points” because we didn’t like “strength”. Thus, it’s Attack, Defense, Hitpoints. 
      • We are looking at adding magical attack and magical defense.
      • The may not be necessary to itemize out like that as spells and weapons can and will do “electrical damage” and “arcane damage” and “fire damage” and such but ultimately it comes from the same finite hit points and unless they are protected from a specific type of damage by a sorcerer or an item they’ll simply take it.
      • This is something that beta testers will be involved in deciding.
  • Heroes level up with each level providing 5 points to spend on improving attributes.
  • We are NOT happy with the road building system. Help us make it better.
  • Quests (these are still pretty rough as we just go the plumbing in)
    • Quests triggered by an event
    • Quests triggered by researching a tech
    • Quests triggered by going over a quest tile on the map
    • Quests can be multi-step (i.e. go here, do this, then return here, then go there, etc.)
    • We DO have a kill the rats in the basement quest in.
  • Dynasties are now in.
    • We’ve temporarily cheesed it so that you just marry a gal (or guy) randomly after N turns. 
    • Eventually you’ll have children.
    • Those children will eventually grow up.
    • When children grow up, you can marry them off to other factions
      • Female children go to the other faction but their children have a 67% chance on growing up of joining her family’s faction.
      • All children, when grown up, become Champions (heroes, we haven’t decided on the official nomenclature, heroes, champions, etc.).
    • Because The Empire isn’t enabled, you cannot currently breed your children to Trogs and Urxen and end up with hideous looking children.  We plan to allow this however in the final version the game despite the horror.
    • The Dynasties are pretty cool.
  • There is a new sound track for background music. It is still very early but should help show where we’re going with this.
  • When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city.  Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment.  You cannot be assassinated.
  • Edge scroll should be in
  • Negotiations basically is not done yet. The AI will pretty much always reject deals. So don’t worry too much about diplomacy yet.

 

IMPORTANT NOTES:

This beta is going to be buggy and incomplete. There’s lots of obvious stuff that just doesn’t work yet or is just plain broken. Bear with us as a lot of “stuff” has come together in the past few weeks from the various groups.

What we are looking for are crashes in particular and memory leaks. When the game crashes, if you can send us as much information as possible (particularly the crash location) that would be great. 

See this post: https://forums.elementalgame.com/364285 to get started.

 

WHEN should the game be fun?

Realistically, Beta 2 should have the game mechanics sufficiently far enough that it should be “fun”.  We will not go to beta 3 until the beta group consensus is that it is ready to progress to beta 3 in terms of “fun” and reasonable stability.

WHEN can I get into the beta?

Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.

WHEN is the game supposed to come out?

We are looking at late Summer.  If we’re done sooner, it’ll come out sooner (probably not) if it takes longer for it to be what we want, it’ll get delayed. I want to make sure we’re all on the same page here: This game matters a lot to us. We’ve been thinking about Elemental for a long time so we want to make sure it’s just right. We self-fund our own titles so there is no “publisher” to pressure us. 

That said, based on our internal builds (which includes the full engine that users will get in beta 3) we’re looking at end of August as being fairly safe. If people compare Beta 1D (December) to this beta (2 months later) I think they’ll see how dramatically things have changed. 6 months is a long time but we’ll see.

 

BETA Screenshots:

image  image image

259,114 views 81 replies
Reply #1 Top

Looking forward to this. I think your Summer estimate might be a little ambitious. :D

Reply #2 Top

 I think your Summer estimate might be a little ambitious

Only time will tell.

I can tell you that *every* single game we've ever made has been the same story. Particularly GalCiv and Sins. You can probably even Google it. :)

Reply #3 Top

That's a whole lot of additions. I can't wait to jump into the meat of the early mechanics and start coming up with ideas to fine tune them.

Reply #4 Top

It's going to take a long time to get the feeling of this beta, there are pleny of new things :)

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 2
I think your Summer estimate might be a little ambitious
Only time will tell.I can tell you that *every* single game we've ever made has been the same story. Particularly GalCiv and Sins. You can probably even Google it.

I've been with/around stardock products since GalCiv on OS2 days - I've still got the box sadly not the floppies. So I know not-MOM is in good hands.

As an architect and game enthusiast I see many permitations for both functional and fun factor reqirements. I'm confident you won't release this, as you said, until its fun.

Looking forward to seeing this one evolve into a solid game over the coming months. :beer:   

 

Reply #6 Top

Very nice! I think this beta will actually be fun to play, at least for a little bit! :P

Although there is one particular item in that list that really, really bothers me (and I know it bothers many other people, as well):

Female children go to the other faction but their children have a 67% chance on growing up of joining her family’s faction.

So if I have a female descendent that grows up into a very fine hero, I can either keep that descendent as a hero or marry her off to another faction? I am completely, 100% unable to arrange a marriage in which another dynasty's male marries into my family, rather than my dynasty's female marrying into theirs?

Regardless of whether or not 67% of children will join the mother's faction, I really don't like that! I would much rather see men and women treated as equals by the dynasty system, or (difficult to implement but potentially much more interesting) to have each faction treat them differently. I would like options when arranging marriages - regardless of which dynasty the bride/groom is coming from, let us choose via diplomacy which family the newly wed couple will be a part of, etc. Some factions might have traditions of marrying women into men's families, or vice versa, or be ambivalent; and chances of the marriage going through could depend on the terms.

There are some other things that seem odd to me, and maybe a little unfortunate (but not nearly as many changes that are really exciting! - and this is what betas are for, after all), but this one particular bullet stands out as being a big mistake.

Reply #7 Top

When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city. Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment. You cannot be assassinated.

Sovereign will still age and die, right?

One of the children will be a new sovereign if and when the current sovereign dies, right?

 

Reply #8 Top



WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.

 

Is this February 25th or March 4th?

 

Reply #9 Top

Omg YES YES YES! Man tomorrow can't come soon enough! :rofl:

 

Guys this is closed Beta 1G for tomorrow. Beta 2 starts in March sometime(when the new batch of testers join in.)

Reply #10 Top

Sovereign will still age and die, right?

One of the children will be a new sovereign if and when the current sovereign dies, right?

That was never the plan, so my guess is the answer is "no" to all of your questions considering they haven't said anything to the contrary. Sovereigns were never intended to die of age, or to be replaced by a descendant, though many people have been clamoring for something like that.

Reply #11 Top


WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.

 

Maybe the best news for me personally. Is this extra access this Thursday (Feb, 25th) or next one (March, 4th)?

I am not sure and absolutly do not want to miss it :)

Reply #12 Top

Quoting AZNGabe, reply 7

Sovereign will still age and die, right?

One of the children will be a new sovereign if and when the current sovereign dies, right?

Wrong and wrong. That will be one of the first mods anyway so don't worry too much about it.


Choose what race the faction comes from (race really is superficial, think race as in humans)
Give your faction its own look (i.e. create your own race)

I take that race is appearance? And that we can edit it more? Making race being a kind of "default appearance settings"?

Unit Design Screen Heavily modified.
One of the major design goals of Elemental is that the people for your armies are coming from somewhere. To that end, when you design a unit, you start with your template which is some guy you grab from town. That means each time you design a unit, the base template guy will look slightly different. Skin tone, hair, clothing, etc. Eventually even height and weight will be slightly different

Armour will adjust to those changes? Or are they so slight that when in armour they will all look the same? Exaggerating it to a non real game case, if I try to recruit the fattest guy in the whole Elemental (like 200 kg/440.924 lb), will the armour adjust or make him thinner?

For the beta, we have a cap of 50 total spell points. Eventually, this cap will be based on beta tester feedback.

I get the feeling that the cap is to avoid players buying all their spells in one single turn or something like tha? (I think that was mentioned in one of the threads) Is not a "1 Spell per turn" better?

Beta 2 (the multiplayer beta) will determine a LOT of the spells that go in because we expect (and consider it part of beta testing) for users to engage in the cheesiest tactics they can possibly think of.

I'm useless there. XD Lack imagination for cheese tactics of any kind.

We DO have a kill the rats in the basement quest in.

The road to epicness begins.

We’ve temporarily cheesed it so that you just marry a gal (or guy) randomly after N turns.

? How is it going to work when not cheesed?

All children, when grown up, become Champions (heroes, we haven’t decided on the official nomenclature, heroes, champions, etc.).

Champions is more morally neutral.

When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city. Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment. You cannot be assassinated.

For those who don't like the "Sovereign dead equals game over." is good. For those who don't like that AND want to play the whole dinasty line, it's still bad.

Artificial way to prevent the death of a Sovereign to please some is not my cup of tea (I respect it though). I'd prefer in game ways to avoid it form happening and only resort to that kind of solution if too much cheese, unable to balance or something like that. Not being able to assasinate a Sovereign is sad, understandable but sad (not saying it should be easy but more likely epic, but still feasible).

Considering that people is going to mod this, not sure why so much cotton around the Sovereign. I suppose it's a "marketing thing"? Ok, maybe for people who never uses mods.

Negotiations basically is not done yet. The AI will pretty much always reject deals. So don’t worry too much about diplomacy yet.

Good to know that.


(Egads x1)

Reply #13 Top

Quoting TheProgress, reply 8




quoting post


WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.




 

Is this February 25th or March 4th?

 

 I am also hugely interested in the answer to this

 

+1 Loading…
Reply #14 Top

Quoting SilmarilSE, reply 13

Quoting TheProgress, reply 8



quoting post


WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.




 

Is this February 25th or March 4th?

 

 I am also hugely interested in the answer to this

 

 

Me too..

 

So whats the normal procedure. Do we receive a email notification or is it a link on this forum?

Reply #15 Top

Quoting TheProgress, reply 8




quoting post


WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.




 

Is this February 25th or March 4th?

 

I'm not Stardock of course, but this must mean March 4th.

Reply #17 Top

Quoting Malleus_magician, reply 16
will the beta 2 be available for people who didnt pre order? (wanted some feedback first)
No preorder = no beta access.

Edit: preorder from Impulse*. Just in case someone decides to preorder in a Gamestop or whatever and then finds that that is not the way to get into the beta.

* you will be charged once you get the beta access. Just in case someone decides to preorder without real money to back it.

Reply #18 Top

Money is spent on upkeep based on the number of cities you have. The first city costs 0. The second city costs 1. The third city costs 2. and so forth.

This means the fourth city costs either 3 gold or 4 gold. Not enough information if it increases exponentially or linearly. :)

IN the beta, outposts get 25 sub-tiles, Hamlets 30…Cities 48. However, we plant to change this to a flat N number and instead have the limiting factor be the radius from the Keep.

Hm... that's a bit unclear for me.

We are NOT happy with the road building system. Help us make it better.

Good to hear. I don't like it either atm.

Female children go to the other faction but their children have a 67% chance on growing up of joining her family’s faction.

How about a civilization perk called Matriarchat, which reverses that?

# When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city. Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment. You cannot be assassinated.

Sounds like a good solution.

Also, cheesy tactic #45, cast a spell under an enemy sovereign that changes the land to it's opposite alignement and attack him/her then.

image

Regarding the last image. Way too much bloom on her, especially her white shirt. Could your techies please tone it down? Bloom overload really annoys me in todays games to a level, that I sometimes manually disable it since it just looks so rediculous.

Reply #19 Top

Quoting LordTheRon, reply 15

Quoting TheProgress, reply 8



quoting post


WHEN can I get into the beta?
Officially the answer is Beta 2 which won’t be until mid next month.  However, if you have pre-ordered (or plan to pre-order) we may open the beta for one day this next Thursday and let everyone who has pre-ordered the game up till then in so that if we have to delay beta 2, users aren’t having to keep waiting and waiting because we want to get their feedback in before we go to beta 2.




 

Is this February 25th or March 4th?

 

I'm not Stardock of course, but this must mean March 4th.

Thats my impression too, but I can how see the how wording would get people to hope :P

So on the 4th (or 25th!), beta will open by allowing people to sign up for it on the website, correct? But its only open to poeple who have pre-ordered

 

Reply #20 Top

Quoting =Outlaw=, reply 19

I'm not Stardock of course, but this must mean March 4th.


Thats my impression too, but I can how see the how wording would get people to hope

So on the 4th (or 25th!), beta will open by allowing people to sign up for it on the website, correct? But its only open to poeple who have pre-ordered

You won't have to "sign up". By pre-ordering the game you get into the Beta. If you pre-order now or have in the last few months you will be added to Beta 2. On the 4th (or 25th) you'll then be able to download the Beta through Impulse.

Reply #21 Top

I'm disappointed that despite all the forum pressure we still don't have equal-gender or faction-specific-sexism dynasty systems in any way, shape, or form. If this is because of the beta restrictions, please feel free to tell us... we can handle it.

Also, while this radius thing is definately an improvement, I still forsee problems with hard-maxing out cities with no apparent reason.

Have to go to school right now.... more critiques in seven hours.

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 21
I'm disappointed that despite all the forum pressure we still don't have equal-gender or faction-specific-sexism dynasty systems in any way, shape, or form. If this is because of the beta restrictions, please feel free to tell us... we can handle it.

Also, while this radius thing is definately an improvement, I still forsee problems with hard-maxing out cities with no apparent reason.

Have to go to school right now.... more critiques in seven hours.

Na....women are meant to be slaves anyway ;) Preferably dressed in skimpy chain-mail bikini's that don't cover the "naughty" bits. hehe

Reply #23 Top

When a sovereign loses a battle, he is sent home to his nearest city.  Our plan is that sovereigns do not die until their final city is taken UNLESS they are attacked (or attack) on land of the opposite arcane alignment (life/death magic influenced land). If you’re sending your sovereign into battle into the Fallen territory (or vice versa) and lose, it’s over but that’s a case of the player making a very deliberate decision/risk assessment.  You cannot be assassinated.

Everything looks great, but this is the only one that rubs me the wrong way. What if instead of game over when your sovereign dies, its game over once your BLOODLINE dies out (basically once all your factions' champions die out). If your sovereign dies, then the next person in line, becomes the faction leader, but they are not a channeler, just a regular champion made king. Obviously you will be at a huge disadvantage. The catch is, each turn that you manage to survive increases the odds that the next child in your bloodline will be a channeler (maybe they find out their power once they are adults). Once that happens, you go into the creation screen to flesh out your new soverign.

This way we don't need a lot of artifical safe gaurds to protect the sovereign. Sovereigns should still be hard to kill off, but they don't need to be cuddled

Reply #24 Top

Quoting pigeonpigeon, reply 6
Very nice! I think this beta will actually be fun to play, at least for a little bit!

Although there is one particular item in that list that really, really bothers me (and I know it bothers many other people, as well):


Female children go to the other faction but their children have a 67% chance on growing up of joining her family’s faction.
So if I have a female descendent that grows up into a very fine hero, I can either keep that descendent as a hero or marry her off to another faction? I am completely, 100% unable to arrange a marriage in which another dynasty's male marries into my family, rather than my dynasty's female marrying into theirs?

Regardless of whether or not 67% of children will join the mother's faction, I really don't like that! I would much rather see men and women treated as equals by the dynasty system, or (difficult to implement but potentially much more interesting) to have each faction treat them differently. I would like options when arranging marriages - regardless of which dynasty the bride/groom is coming from, let us choose via diplomacy which family the newly wed couple will be a part of, etc. Some factions might have traditions of marrying women into men's families, or vice versa, or be ambivalent; and chances of the marriage going through could depend on the terms.

There are some other things that seem odd to me, and maybe a little unfortunate (but not nearly as many changes that are really exciting! - and this is what betas are for, after all), but this one particular bullet stands out as being a big mistake.

I agree.  I'd like the option to decide whether or not our society deems women as chattel to be married out or treats them in a more enlightened manner.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting =Outlaw=, reply 23

...Everything looks great, but this is the only one that rubs me the wrong way. What if instead of game over when your sovereign dies, its game over once your BLOODLINE dies out (basically once all your factions' champions die out). If your sovereign dies, then the next person in line,...

It's a core game mechanic debated in many threads, Stardock won't change it. Wait for a mod.

Edit: broken quoting because of...?