Malice, Colonize, and Armistice

I totally agree that the Jerrasul's colonize ability needs help, but the change you're suggesting is overly elaborate and highly situational.  Given that most people will slaughter your fleet and then (and only then) begin bombarding, this ability might be so specific that it almost never is useful.

I disagree regarding armistice.  It's one of the most tactical abilities in the game currently, and I'd hate to see it changed, especially to something that just increases your relationship (lame).

Malice could use a buff, I'd agree, but the problem was that in its old form it was lagging up the game and was essentially a death sentence to sufficiently large fleets.  I'd agree that it needs some form of balancing to be effective, but it's worth noting that as far as smaller fleets are concerned malice is just as good as shield restore.

Just to chime in, the Evacuator make sense in the game and the lore, because these are the ships that evacuated their empire as they were running from whatever it is that is chasing them.  Thus these ships contain their entire population, along with the moving starbases which have colony pods.  So when an Evacuator colonizes, it is dropping off some of the population that it previously evacuated from their empire.

Not really highly situational.  If you owned at least one terran planet (aside from your HW), you could temporarily scuttle it and then donate that population to an asteroid.  In this way, you could finally get some decent income out of them, and then the terran planet could just be recolonized by a migrator since you likely already have buildings up.  You wouldn't need to have your world blown up to do this, you just need to scuttle it so you would essentially boost the Vasari tax income over time to whatever the highest population planet is.  Now, of course it takes time for that population to regenerate after you recolonize the original planet, so this isn't something you can spam unless your worlds are 75% terran (which they never are).

 

I'm not suggesting that you kill its current ability.  Just add in a second buffinstantactiontype with a target filter for enemy planets and if so, make it so that your standing increases with it.  I'm just saying it makes sense that having a high level capitalship declare a cease fire in enemy territory ought to make them realize that you don't want to kill them.  And if all else fails, you can always have your fleet waiting back at your world so that if they jump in a fleet, you can always leave before the buff ends.  So it still does what it is intended to, but now it can have economic benefits rather than just military by saving your fleet.

 

I know, and I'm not trying to justify it.  I'm just saying that it doesn't really seem worth while anymore.  It was once something that could shred enemy fleets as it got more powerful with their numbers and when combined with Hostility, you dealt constant damage to them.  Let's say that there are 100 enemy ships in range of both Malice and Hostility.  Each ship takes 1 DPS from hostility, but then it also takes 99*.7 DPS from Malice which is 69.3 DPS.  The same idea applies to side beams and CB.

Obviously you want colonize which makes upgrades a lot cheaper and shield restore is good in the long run and short term so you get it.  Late game, malice does nothing but drain AM as it doesn't target enough enemy ships to really make it worth while IMO.  That is why I suggested increasing the target cap from 24 to 40 and upping the propagation per level.  It gives you more to work with and gives you the option of late game use (which is when you would get it anyways...)

 

@Agent: I thought about having it do something like colony pods, but I decided against it.  These are refugees, not residents.  And besides, you need a Jarrasul to evacuate an Orky since Orkies can't phase jump.

I agree that the EGG's colonize ability is very meh at best, but there is a lot more to Vasari that needs buffing than their only OP capital ship that everybody uses anyway for all the other juicy stuff.

Well, I'm certainly not against buffing the Antorak or the Kol, but I'm just suggesting these things as I think that it would:

1. Make the Egg's colonize better

2. Give Armistice a second use

3. Make Malice viable again

I think a simple way to buff the Evacuator's colonization ability and to make it a little more comparable to the Akkan's and Progenitor's ability would be to give it a planet population increase buff.  So for example, Level 1 Colonize might increase population growth on the colonized planet by 50%.  Level 2 would give you double the normal growth rate, 100%.  Level 3 would give a 150% bonus.

I don't know if those growth rate bonuses would be too much or too little.  Maybe it should go 100%-150%-200% or 100%-200%-300%.  I do know that the order in which I upgrade my Evacuator is:

1. Colonization
2. Nanites
3. Nanites
4. Phase Jump Inhibit
5. Nanites
6. Planet Suck
7. Phase Jump Inhibit
8. Phase Jump Inhibit
9. Colonization
10. Colonization

With a population growth bonus I might be more likely to take Level 2 Colonization at ship level 3 or 4 instead of pushing it back to the end.

 

I upgrade mine in the same way, and that is an option.  I was just coming up with something that had to do with the name and lore.

Who doesn't use this order?

I sometimes go nanites first, colonize second if I have a moderately defended desert/terran nearby with one kodiak and 4-5 krosovs. Going nanites first allows you to quickly wipe krosovs and maybe an LRM; then, with perfect timing, your EGG gets its second level and you can pick colonize, use it and go about your job as intended.

Still I believe that while Armistice or Malice may require a buff, the EGG's colonization buff should be somewhere... five miles down the "needs buff/nerf list".

You know, getting a new paint job might be a cool idea, but when three tyres are missing and the engine is fuming black smoke, the paint becomes a minor issue.

Like N3rull, I too, almost always go nanites first, and level up to colonization, or send in a colony frigate to colonize the roid, since there is no real benefit to using the Egg to colonize.   And/or purchase level 2 as I jump to the next.  The frigate is then ready and waiting, if you need it to starbase something.

1.  Nanites
2.  Colonization
3.  Nanites...         is safer, quicker IMO.

I agree, that the Egg's colonization should be buffed.  Maybe send down a bigger starting population at higher levels.  Or buff the existing build speeds to significant levels, so that it actually matters.

I don't know..  It needs something, so I figured I'd make Egg users and lore obsessors happy with the suggestion..  

What we really need is something simple and elegant.  I think what you're suggesting is over-elaborate, and a permanent effect (boosting population above maximum levels) is out of line compared with what other colony caps can do.

The EGG's problem is not that it lacks, but that it's the only vasari cap that doesn't lack .

I would be much happier if Antorak was given something remotely useful in combat, or if phase missile swarm dealt phase missile damage, or if disintegration wasn't crappish, or if volatile nanites wasn't the crappiest level6 AOE damage-related ability, or if scramble bombers had everything halved (duration, cooldown, AM cost), or if weapon jam had an increased area of effect...

The EGG is a very good all-round cap. Colonizes, kills caps, kills starbases (nanites pwn SBs), eats planets (literally). Bah, the 20% building speed, crappy as it is, even makes it easy to throw up 2 missile batteries and a repair station quickly (before the EGG leaves the well) meaning that the planet will take care of rebels by itself.

So, your notion is ok. It's just a tweak for a good cap when the other four need thorough revitalization. Well, maybe not four - Vulk is a very good planet bomber even with PMS and Dis being junk and his DPS lacking (good reason not to make those junky karrastras, although sheer planet cracking is not enough for a cap imo), Kortul is about fine (increase weapon jam range and tweak vol nans, which are useless beyond the flat 30% damage debuff over a small area). Skirantra needs help, alas a little less than before the last update, while antorak is still a luxurious limo with a diesel engine in a world where everything runs on propane - looks great, but turns out to be looks only.

Yes, PMS still sucks, but Disin got a buff by now dealing part of its damage straight to hull.  I don't know the actual statistics.

POH could become useful if it dealt more damage and Subversion could use a buff to affect the construction of SC.

The Kortul is much better thanks to that patch and with the advent of the Ruiner/Sub combo, you can really start setting off chain reactions.  Without using that combo, VN is good.  With it, VN is awesome.

Please, do show a single replay where a good player gets his butt smacked by a VN/ruiner/sub combo. I wish to see this.

Any replay where a non-idiot gets hurt by VN could help my opinion of this ability greatly. The only real use of it that I found is:
- against (VERY) tightly packed groups of frigates - they have to be really tightly packed, cause VN has a very small area of effect and the blasts hurt only ships that are almost touching, which is not gonna happen against a non-mindless player.
- against starbases - a 60 second +30% damage is always welcome against these sobs.
- when supporting a starbase - since sbs kill 5-7 targets at once, they are much better suited to setting off VN blasts.

Other than these, VN is just a 60 second +30% damage debuff with a relatively small AOE. Not worth a level6 ability in my opinion.

I used it yesterday. Didn't notice a difference really. For the price and the cooldown, I would rather bang two GRG shots than use this channeled pew pew blueish suckerbeam.

Looking at the buff files, Disintigration does:

Target: 150 hull damage/sec, 150 shield damage/sec, 20 antimatter drained/sec.

The Vulkoras: 120 hull restored/sec, 120 shields restored/sec, 15 antimatter restored/sec.

Lasts 8 seconds. Takes 2 seconds to charge.

 

So, 1200 hull damage, 1200 shield damage, 160 antimatter drained, 960 hull healed, 960 shield healed, 120 AM restored, and this thing sucks?

 

It seems so, yes. The ship I targeted definately did not disinintegrate, nor did it disappear much faster than before. It seems a lot of this damage is successfully mitigated.

You know, the biggest gripe that I have with Disintegration is that Vulkoras regenerates AM very slowly and it has a spammable 15sec cooldown PMS as its main killer ability. PMS drains its AM rapidly and without PMS the DPS of this ship is totally junk (with PMS it sucks as well, but a little less :P). It is just that after 20 seconds into the fight, Vulkoras will not have 150 AM for Disintegration.

Do you notice the similiarity between Finest Hour and Disintegration? Both are life-savers, both now regenerate AM, hit points, both cause damage to a target. Yes, they do it differently, but the idea is the same - some ultra punch for 150 AM on a large cooldown.

Well, the thing is that Vulkoras doesn't have the punch of Kol (gun-wise mainly), doesn't have the survivability of Kol (both in terms of hit points, armor and the Kol's Adaptive forcefield) and doesn't have the combat utility of Kol (Flak burst against do-nada).

The Kol can enter the fight, use a Flak burst to scare of SC (or use an Adaptive forcefield to stay alive much easier) and proceed with gunning the enemies to some effect, saving those 150 AM while not being useless.

Vulkoras on the other hand is squishy, has no survivability enhancements and sending two PMS is all it can do if you want to use Disintegration in the battle.

So the problem of Disintegration is that it is a nice, ultimate damaging/healing ability with high AM cost to be used somewhere in the midst of battle, but it is on a ship that is completely unsuited to prolonged combat.
If something focuses Vulkoras, it will die - 15 seconds later if it uses Disintegration and nothing interrupts it. Moreover, between levels 1-5, Vulkoras is a crappy combat vessel with seriously lacking forward DPS. It is a great planet cracker, none dare deny... but killing planets yields no XPz. Killing planets while focused is a bad idea, partly because siege platforms constitute about a half of Vulk's siege capability and they are VERY fragile, MUCH more so than Sova's platforms.

Disintegration is just not made for this ship. It would be a great ability on Kol or on Kortul.
It just doesn't work with good ol' Vulk.

Vulkoras is, IMO, a weaker capital ship as well.  Currently it's used as an armoured siege frigate, a role it does extremely well, but has little use otherwise.  Personally, I'd like to see its base stats PMS get buffed.  Disintegration is fine as is.

True.  The Vulk is something that is certainly not a combat vessel.  I think Disin is on there to increase its survivability.  One thing is certain though.  You see this thing arrive at an undefended planet, you are going to be in some pain.  I don't think that the Marza even does as good as this thing thanks to passively buffing itself and deploying an army of siege platforms.

I know that other caps need some boosts, but I just suggested this for the colonizers.

N3rull, right. Point was that it's not Disintigration that sucks.

 

No, Marza doesn't do as much damage to planets.

Marza is an awesome combat vessel with Incendiary shells, rad bomb and MB. If Marza could match Vulkoras in planet-cracking power, Vulkoras would be absolute junk in my eyes, since it's all that vulk is decent at. That would be the ultimate fail beyond salvation.

fair enough - still, Disintegration is just useless on the current vulkoras. Vulk needs to be more combat effective throughout the game for disintegration to be a nice finisher; the ultimate should not be the ship's only combat ability. And as long as PMS sucks, Vulk is a planet killer extraordinaire with no other use beyond that.
When you're buying a tennis racket, you don't need a flashlight mounted in the handle. Sure, it's useful... but not in a tenis racket ffs >.<

U can take nanites at lvl 1 u know. It's not a bad idea in some situations

Thanks Kitkun, for looking that up.  I had never been real clear about how it works.  But I think your figures are off too.

Since it "Lasts 8 seconds. Takes 2 seconds to charge", it only does 6 pulses of damage and heal.  

So, 900 hull damage, 900 sheild damage...                               ..., 720 hull healed, 720 shield healed.

But I don't know if it is only 6 pulses of antimatter drained and restored too?  It sure looks like 8 there, when I watch it in action.

Anyway, it surely doesn't suck now (post 1.18)!   The hull damage is direct to hull, it bypasses shields, thus is not reduced by mitigation.  900 direct hull damage is comparable to level 2 Nano Dissambler.  Then add sheild damage.  The Vulkoras ends up healthier.   And antimatter remains about the same, since the antimatter cost is about what is restored.  Sucks for the target tho!  Too bad, there is a relatively long cool down before it can be used again.

For reference, the following is what I had in the Cap ship ability guide, I may need to edit it:

Disintegration (ultimate ability)   ****
Level available: 6
Antimatter cost: 150
Cooldown time: 120   90   (1.1 buff)
Affects: enemy frigate, capital ship or structure (damage), self (hull repair)
Range: 6000
Duration: 2 (charging), 8 (activated)
Interruptible
Channeling
Effect(s):
Damage rate: 200  150 (direct to hull only)  (1.18/1.04E buff)
Damage rate:   150 (direct to shield only)     (1.18/1.04E added buff)
Depletss Antimatter:   20 per second from the target  (1.18/1.04E added buff)
Nanite hull repair pulses: 6
Repair pulse interval: 1.5
Hull repair per second: 187.5   120   (1.18/1.04E  nerf) 
Shield restore per second:    120      (1.18/1.04E  added buff)
Antimatter restore per second:    15   (1.18/1.04E  added buff)  
Leech hull points from target hostile. The target takes 300 damage & looses 20 antimatter per pulse, and heals the Vulkoras of 240 damage and restores 15 antimatter per pulse.
Notes: Six pulses means: 1800 damage and 1440 points of repair, as well as: +120 & -90 antimatter, if Disintegration is uninterrupted.  You need high health (900+ hull) targets to gain the full healing effect.  Again, “channeling” means that if you issue new orders, or it automatically starts a new order, the ability will be interrupted, and won’t complete its full effect.

Nah, the whole thing lasts ten seconds. 2 to charge, 8 to complete. I'm assuming it's all per second though, since I didn't see a value anywhere.

 

But, but the in-game description says:
"Duration:     8"
"Waves:        6"

And it sure looks like 6 pulses come back to the Desolator while in use.  And it looks like about 900 of damage to both hull & shield (6 X150).

But it looks like about -160 of antimatter removed, and +120 restored (8 X 20 & 15)!  The in-game description also makes is sound like the "6 Waves" only applies to the damage & heal, not the antimatter theft.

So IDK?