Cykur 1.041 Replays - Now Vs 9 Unfair

The advent one is only one I watched and its pretty funny.Nearly 800 scouts take out an ugraded sb with very small losses.Nice.

Actually, the other is funnier....used all Navigators vs an AI Advent. 

Ya those replays pretty much prove your point about scouts.You killed 4 sb 2 of which were upgraded 3 weapons and 3 health.You beat those sb with only 3-400 scouts.The really interesting part is the stats at end.I didnt watch past the last upgraded sb cause all ai had was fleet but by that point you did more damage hull wise than the ai with its diverse fleet and the really interesting part sb too.Really shows the efficiency of the scout is off.

Yeah, it was a bit more work with the Navigator since they are more expensive than Seekers/Scouts and the upgraded SB did inflict a fair amount of damage.  By that point in the game I have the numbers and economy to sustain massive losses -- the real question is, how is it possible to get to that point when I am using Navigators to kill things that they are supposed to be completely Ineffective against?

Uhm..I..actually miss the point of this thread, not much exciting to watch a replay against an AI and if you intend to play online the AI is a bad trainer since it's rather predictable and require all another tactic than when facing a human opponent.

Anyway, 1 Unfair AI is a little bit too easy...perhaps try more? (obiviously all teamed up against you)

Lo

Yes, it is different than playing Online.  Did you watch the replays?  You would understand the point....I think....if you had watched them.  These replays are not using a normal strategy, which is why they may be interesting....

And since you bring it up, how many Unfair AI should be teamed up against me to make it a reasonably fair fight?  I hear people sometimes complain that they can't fight one Unfair AI....Let me know how many I should fight for you to consider it interesting.....

He was trying to make a point about scouts and not the fact that he could beat 1 unfair AI.  Cykur is also one of the better online players so it is kinda funny that you mention the AI being a bad trainer against online players(which it is bad). 

[_]-Greyfox

LoTek...I have followed your suggestion and added more AI and put them on a locked team against me.  Unfortunately, I couldn't add more than 9, so I'm not entirely certain just how many I can fight by myself.  Hope you find this replay more interesting -- even though I suspect you didn't look at the previous replays, you were just commentating...

Dont tell me you beat 9 with nothing but scouts?

was this 9  AI all vs you locked?. If so did you use sbs or not?

Yes, all 9 Unfair AI on one locked team.  Of course I used SBs.   And no, I didn't use many scouts, except for clearing mines and scouting.

well i won one of those 9unfair vs me but not like you

as an advent i went for sb and turrets, you have an amazing firepower, use 1 hangar for shield boost (specialy for shield regen not the bonus amount) 4 drone hosts you send the fightrs only to take down torpedos or starfish, meteor rain

and that only holds 9 unfair, just build your eco behind that choke and its game over

i don't finish those games too much of a loss of time since all you have to do after is battleball 200 illum 25 guards and you take all down while making chokepoints everywhere while you finish 1 ai

point is the best defence is advent, their turrets can go up to a 50 dmg with 1750 shield (witch means you gain shield mitigation ... crazy defence boost) 6 repairs, 2 motherships with 30 turrets and a sb meteor ... who can take it alone head on?

i tested it against flipkik as tec, without ogrovs its impossible to pass it if you have an eco or feed, and even with ogrovs you'd need a crazy amount

i think it took him almost 2 hours to take it

That is kind of similiar to what I did on the Advent replay I provided.  Turrets around a Hangar with Repair and a Starbase...backed by various Advent Fleet.  I didn't use Lums that much though.   I still found it easier with Marzas.  As nasty as the turrets are stuff still shows up faster than they can kill them so you need the the uncapped AoE abilities on the starbase and some support on the really big waves.  Sometimes 6 or 7 AI's show up at one time with 1K supply fleets each.  Good times....

Ive tried 9 unfair Ai locked vs me with no SBs single star. Cant seem to win anymore. Before I was able to without sbs now I dont think its possible.

I watched some of the part 2 vs 9 and the Vasari Navigator spam replays. They were'nt really interesting because they're both sloppily executed.

The first one is just starbase uncapped target acquisition/repair abuse ad nauseum.

The second one is played against what's evidently one of the economy/defense orientated AI's - on a small map.

In both sessions, lots of 'noob' errors are made such as not scouting ahead/leaving planets undefended for the AI to bombard (which, of course, it does). In the first one income isn't being handled effectively and there's lots of relevant research that's not been conducted yet. In the second, expansion comes extremely slowly and the AI is permitted grabbing a lot more planets than what was necessary.

So really, it's replays displaying not so much how to beat the AI as how to bugabuse it. I don't really see the point? It's interesting that the AI is so bad you can beat even 9 of them, but the way shown here isn't very interesting at all. meh.

Ouch. I wonder who that was intended at. Add the clause "kill you online when you spam lrfs." I'm no fool. I never use scouts if the enemy isn't spamming lrfs.

BTW, who are you online Apheirox? Or aren't you online? There are three people in this game that while I may not always see eye to eye, I will always have immense respect for regardless of how they play. Those three are JJ, Tyr, and my oldest of clanmates/friends ( who unfortunately I seem to be entangled in a bit of an arguement right now ), Cykur. I'm curious as to who you are before I give a response to what you've said.

Ive tried 9 unfair Ai locked vs me with no SBs single star. Cant seem to win anymore. Before I was able to without sbs now I dont think its possible.

What is starbase uncapped target acquisition?  Can you describe it -- because there is no such thing?  I wasn't abusing repair!!! I only repair stuff that is damaged!

Yes, I said that it was a Fortifier AI, because scouts are supposedly not good fighting defenses.  It was to give the AI a better chance.  I didn't build defenses because it would have taken money away from building scouts!  Sometimes losing a world is more acceptable when you are eliminating a fleet as the trade off.

If you fight 9 Unfair AI, they will in fact grab most of the planets.  I do scout a fair amount, and when I'm not scouting, I generally am just building up my strength.  Of course the AI is bombing my planets...9 AI's will do that.  I must have done something right because I won.

No bugs were abused.  AI's can certainly be predictable and are not as good as human players, which is why we play against more of them and the Unfair AI gets an economic boost.  There are not many ways to beat 9 locked Unfair AI -- but if you do it everyday in more interesting fashion, maybe you should post a replay. 

Thanks for your trolling effort!

Amish, you DO sometimes rush people with scouts.  And you are not the only one using scouts, so the statement is not directed only at you.  The scout issue has been beaten to death, so I'm not going into all the points.  My replays with scouts were just to demonstrate that the unit is cost effective enough to be able to kill non-optimal ships because scouts provide so much health for their cost.

Don't worry man, I still have the utmost respect for you!  I just REALLY disagree on this balance issue.

The AI has been getting progressively better.  I supposed it could be beaten just using static defenses if you are using Marza's, but it wouldn't be easy.  Not sure that Advent could do it without SBs.

There's really no need to get upset, Cykur. I have no reason to believe you are not a capable player and it's not what I'm hinting at. I think the effort to display how to best the AI is commendable and the fact you can take on even nine of them at once is humourous.

I only watched part two of the vs9 replay and the reason it's uninteresting (for me) is you are already well established and holding a whole star system here. That means the tipping of scales occured many hours of gameplay back as the Ai only grows weaker compared to the player as the game drags on. You have already won at this point, it's just a matter of time. It is no great feat holding back the AI fleets with fully upgraded Argonevs backed by repair pads (which the AI will never target) when the AI is all too keen to suicide them into these behemoths.

What would have been much more interesting to see for me is the early game, BEFORE you can afford all those suicide-magnet starbases. Handling that is truly impressive, and it's here I could no doubt have learnt something.

What I am saying is that when you are creating the thread here so people can learn how to handle the AI, you should make a better effort at avoiding the classic pitfalls that the AI is programmed to take advantage of. As a pro player, you KNOW what these are. In the Vasari game, however, multiple times you aren't scouting and so you don't see the AI has a siege fleet prepped on the rim of the gravity well ready to launch into your completely vulnerable worlds. The AI ALWAYS does that and you know it. But because you do the classic 'send 'em all' and leave not a single ship behind for defense, the AI jumps it's fleet right past yours (I think they're actually in the phase lane at the same time) and it wrecks you population. I didn't care to watch the whole replay but I saw one of you ice worlds go from around 70 population to zero - twice. The same happens on your desert world in the other end of the galaxy.

In the vs9 game, the same thing happens but here you have the auxillary government upgrade on the starbases so you don't lose the colonies. Still you have multiple planets sitting at 0 population when just a few hangar bays would have kept them at full.

There are more things I could comment on but I don't really care to. I'm sorry if you feel offended but I got the impression that you knew you were facing 'just the AI' and so weren't playing your fullest. I seriously doubt you would omit scouting ahead (in a session where you build scouts only, no less, it's not like you were lacking them ) if you were playing a human opponent and wanting to win? When playing nine AI's that get twice the ressource income you obviously have to take advantage of its shortcomings but when gameplay comes to revolve around that only coupled with some of the oversights mentioned it doesn't make for an interesting replay.

My first part of the replay was corrupted, and I stated as much and was very upset -- I know it is the best part of the game, and I wouldn't have played the other 8 hours if I had known my first piece was screwed up.

I did make a 2nd  vs 9 game and used Advent to demonstrated the first few hours of the game where I started from scratch.

In the Scout games at the stage where I was losing worlds, it was because all of the scouts needed to be pressuring the enemy ....I was counting on scouts coming from the factories to hold the rear line.  I couldn't afford to sit around and wait for the enemy to get critical mass.  The loss of a world was less economically damaging to me than it was for the AI to lose ships, and the AI's investment in siege was actually beneficial to me.  Now if I was not able to reclaim those worlds, then I would have lost. 

In the vs 9 AI game, there is no way to stop them from reducing your world to 0 pop -- give it a try yourself.  No way.  The only time I scouted was when I was making sure I didn't want to land an attack on a minefield or starbase.  Any other time, I know what is out there, with 9 Unfair AI there is ALWAYS a fleet waiting to jump in on you at most of your borders.

Now, as my fleet expands, I become pretty maxed out trying to control everything and I don't feel like leaning on the pause key all day...I only use it in emergencies.  Sorry if you feel that it is sloppy play.

I am sure there are other folks out there who have fought 9 Unfair AI, but no one has posted a replay to my knowledge -- I only posted it for people who said they didn't know how to fight multiple AI.  And as we both know, you don't fight real people the same way...but then again, I don't have to fight 9 people with double starting income by myself!

do 1 star now 

I could probably do it on Implosion which is an 8 player map.  The only bigger map for single star are the random 10 players, and it would probably take me many tries to get the right start.  Ironically, the start I had in the multiplayer game I played earlier tonight would have been perfect for fighting off 9 AI's, but most of them have too many avenues of attack to even get out of your HW.

Seriously though, I don't think I'm going to sink more time into fighting AI's....these are real tedious to make, and probably tedious to watch from the armchair general comments.

Well... If the AI ever gets an upgrade, I have an idea for a name.

easy --> normal --> hard --> unfair --> Cykur

I don't think the developers ever foresaw it would be possible for someone to beat nine unfair AI's.