Saddam Hussein wasn't a terrorist. He was a nasty piece of work, for usre, but he was content to just sit in his own little plot of land and let the world wait for his inevitable collapse. Or are you still living in yellow-cake-land. And all the situations you mentioned about terrorists with a capital T (I find that convention funny for some reason) occurred because the US brought everything crashing down. As I keep telling you. And you obviously keep ignoring.

Lemme see. We've been stuck in this wheel of logic for nearly a page now. You ignore the people you couldn't save, and the deaths that the organization you so ardently support caused every time I ask about it, instead going off into some monologue about "FREEDOM" and how happy the Iraqis are to have no utilities or certain source of law enforcement. I've shot that down at least three times, but you repeat it again and again. Plus, you still haven't made any senseible response to my listing of societal militaristic messages currently saturating the country. And you were going on about nations sticking up for themselves or some such generality, but you've since stopped so I'm assuming you changed the subject. As for a strategy, try this out for size:

• Now, I don't have access to classified reports or anything of that nature, but it seems to me that instead of focusing so much on elections and FREEDOM and those sorts of intangibles, the US should be focusing on rebuilding the national infrastructure:
  • Schools are always useful, especially since the assorted factions can't attack them without appearing as cowardly murderers of women and children to the wider public (which will severely erode their support), and since they'll build up the country's economy in the long term....... and since they'll provide a place for parents to send their kids that isn't filled with theocratic propeganda.
  • Factories and farming projects are also a good idea: Joe Iraqi isn't going to want to join whatever militia is in power this week if he has a steady job provided to him by the US of A.
  • Lastly, remeber to hook up power and water again, especially in the rural areas. Again, if the people you count on for your stable, functional, and modern way of life are First Worlders, you probably won't hate them nearly as much as if they kept putting more troops on the streets.
• Of course, the results won't start to appear for years and any sort of meaningful plan will cost yet more billions of dollars, but it's either that or leave and let the whole thing collapse....

You're going to say how I can't have any knowledge of foreign affairs since I haven't made my inspection tour yet and how happy the Iraqis are to have their FREEDOM, aren't you?

*slams head against desk repeatedly* WHAT HAVE I DOOONEEE!!!

EDIT: Just remember kiddos, patriotism is a synonym for nationalism, a kind of mentality that basically consumed a majority of germany allowing for mass genocide to occur by the hands of those brainwashed by a power hungry leader.

Oh, and before WWII, American students pledged their allegiance to the flag with their hands flat and their arms pointed to the sky like a communial "Sieg Heil"

Yes, and it is entirely off topic.

If you people want to discuss things other than SGU - START ANOTHER THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's a very good idea. I tried @ the top of the last page, but I'll hand it to this guy: he's persistent if nothing else.

Yes I am actually because your so damn convinced your right, your still talking about shit that no longer protain to Iraq in its current state as if nothings changed over there. Iraq hasnt been in all out "hide from the terrorists" mode since '07. Also throughout your post you made accusations that are obvious you didnt really pay attention to what was going on both here in the States and over there.

Whats ashame is, I know plenty of people that havent been to Iraq that know more about whats actually going on over there right now, and what HAS happened but no longer IS happening, then you do.

If you dont have classified documents, then how are you making a full unbiased assesment? If you dont have the full story, you dont actually know anything. But wait.... Oh thats right, your tv told you the REAL story and now your convinced.

Saddam was intent on his own land? Were you not around for the first Gulf War, how about the fighting between Iraq and Iran?

The only thing Im ignoring is your lack of arguements. If you want to keep bringing in crap that doesnt protain to the debate fine. Just dont get butthurt when people dont even pay it any attention.

Where have I gone off in a monologue about freedom? Again putting words in my mouth and twisting things. Congrats you keep making yourself look like you dont know what your talking about. People only twist and make shit up when they dont have a valid arguement.

I never ignored anyone, your again twisting what I said. If you seriously cant make an arguement with anything more then putting words in someones mouth or twisting what they said. Your not worth debating.

All of the stuff you mentioned Scout, weve done, The US funds police departments being built, local Iraqi Army etc etc, and of course public schools, factories, and water treatment facilities. Your way behind on the times if you think the US hasnt gotten around to building that stuff. Like I said you havent been there obviously because your statements sound alot like stuff coming from people back in '04 who only watched the news and assumed what they were being told was the truth.The US isnt there just to fuck shit up and then move on, if that was the case we would of left the country weeks after tearing it a new asshole.

No one was FOCUSING on Elections. The AMERICAN people and the WORLD was focused on Elections. Because like usual people with no clue about the current situation ASSUME they know whats best for something they arent truely educated on. And sorry to burst your bubble but obviously you dont. People wanted the elections to come and go because they assumed if the country had a government it would be able to handle itself and the US could immediately pull out. Let me educate you on something. Infrastructure comes before Government. Without schools, public facilities, etc etc. The government will be hollow.

The Military was forced to push the elections to the forefront because of pressure from home. Not because that was their main  short term goal.

Again, your lack of actual knowledge of what has transpired both here at home and what has happened in another nation shows in your post.

And for SGU, Im actually tired of it. Nothing so far has happened that actually has gotten me excited one bit. If their pulling in large ratings good for them. But I doubt many of the original fans are included in the ratings.

Here we go again........

Of course things have improved, becuase they could hardly get worse, and even a mess like Iraq will have some capacity for self-organization. My point (which you keep ignoring) is that things were (and still are) such a mess because we decided to go off on our little crusade. I'd like to see you claim that power, water, police forces, schools, industry, and so on were never disrupted in the least and your little friends didn't cause any civillian deaths or loss of property whatsoever (which, from what I've seen so far, you probably will).

It doesn't take a top-level briefing to see the handwriting on the wall........ especially when the claims made against it are statistically dubious to the point of impossibility.

Actually, I wasn't, but not only was that decades ago when the regime was much stronger, but it actually contributed to Saddam's following introversion. Not to mention, the Saudi-US military pact was one of the big things that made some young Mujahadeen rebel named Bin Laden very angry at the First World (you do know what the First world is, I hope....)

Lemme see....: You're right! You haven't gone off into a monologue about "FREEDOM". You've gone off into three.

You're ignoring me, now. You're ignoring the evidence of instability and popular dissatisfaction I'm assuming you saw if you were indeed actually in Iraq in some sort of long-term capacity and not just lying to make yourself seem more credible...... you're ignoring repeated attempts by myselfand other posters to break out of this mind loop and not derail the thread........ those are the three big ones.... plus the points about rampant pop-culture militarism and grounds of a threat that I mentioned above..........

I'm impressed. I thought you'd just attack me directly and say that my strategy would never work, citing some sort of Heritage Foundation anti-New Deal drivel that would effectively self-debunk. But instead, you actually agree with me...... there's hope for you yet. In any case, the US has 1) destroyed a perfectly good infrastructure just to get at the overgrown schoolyard bully at the top, and 2) been fiddling around with elections and imaginary WMD and that sort of thing for a good six years at the very least. Considering the pace of construction I've observed here at home, I can't imagine very many finished projects in that time (although you no doubt will think of one or two examples to make you and your gun-toting assosciates look like Bob The Builder), and even then I highly doubt that we'll see any sort of large impact for a few more years.

I'm well aware of that. In fact, I outlined exactly the sort of strategy you're talikng about above (minus the ranting). Did you just not read it, or could you not understand the big words?

So, you chose to actively support a strategy you knew was going to fail miserably.... why?? Because you didn't think you had a choice? Because you didn't care about the lives and livlihoods you were jeprodizing? Or because you could only realize that the push for "FREEDOM" was a dumb idea with massive amounts of hindisght?

And why do I get such a strong Palin vibe from your posts? Maybe because you keep claiming that I've somehow used my evil voodoo h4cker skillz to make you just seem like you're saying outlandish things?

The OP asked you guys to move this somewhere else.  Instead, you ignored him completely and are ranting worse then ever.  Knock it off.  This is an SGU post, not your personal chat room.  Either make a new topic and move this there, or shut up about it.

Edit-  Alliegience, that was mostly directed at Scoutdog.  I understand your defensive stance on this subject, but the OP did ask you guys to stop, and this is his thread.  Sorry if i offended you here.

SGU:  I still haven't watched the latest episode, but i'ma get to it soon.  I actually am a bit interested in it myself.  (The series)  I'm actually a little shocked that we all started comparing it to the previous two (Myself included)  When we were outright told about the fact that it was going to be something entirely new.

I think I'll just let Al rant for a while unless he comes up with something new and really bizzarre/offensive that would need correcting. But whatever, as long as we get some sort of normalcy back here.......

Regarding the show (now there's a novel idea), I was never that big of an SG fan to begin with, and as I said pages before, while the show has improved a little, I still dislike the characters and the writing. I think I'll just let what happens to it happen, and hope the fan community decides to strike it from the canon.

Isn't it a plus that the thread is derailed?  The show is unwatchable...

Your opinion.  'm actually kinda interested.  Not for the same reasons as SG1/SGA, but because i am a dedicated SG fan and want to know everything there is about that universe.  Personally, yes, i would like a continuation of SG1...maybe an offshoot with different cast, but still.  Hell, maybe Universe can even lead to that.  *Destiny comes in contact with an alien species that is more powerful than anything anyone has seen yet, and they find a way to bring the ship to earth after they misplace the stones*  (Yes, the stones must go.  I agree there.)

 

How about the race that "is more powerful than anything anyone has seen yet", at least in the Stargate universe, be the Q? Yes, I know there are ascended ancients and all that spiel. However, the Q don't have qualms about interference and they aren't completely malevolent like the Ori either. John De Lancie was in a couple SG1 episodes, but meh, it would be nice to have some overlap into the awesomeness which is the Star Trek universe.

 

Better yet, have Dr Rush meet with the Borg.

Now that will be fun.......... I've always wanted to see the Borg as something other than pure evil (Rush, too). They're both SO EFFING COOL<nerdpoweroverload>

hahaha, considering how bad the show is now, doing ^^this^^ would only make it better =P

Rush --> Borg King?

Damned trekies.  *Smacks numerarius and SD with a rolled up newspaper.*  *Laughs when only SD seems effected...*

Ha.  It'll never happen, guys.  Cross-universe stuff like that would quite possibly kill stargate forever.  Why not throw the Vasari into the mix too?  (I say this, because the Ori were practically Advent as it stands.)

And yes, i know that is coincidence.  Just sayin.

:ninja:-Exile

One, we were joking (but also half-serious!), two, a quick death for the series is probably better than a slow, lingering decline into crappiness, and three, throwing the Vasari into things sure wouldn't hurt.

I for one liked the mid series finale episode. I thought it was one of their better episodes. It had an actual conflict instead of just petty drama. At least someone actually took initiative in that episode. Its not like everyone is just talking about their feelings and crying etc....they are leaving each other on arid planets to die...now that is what I am talking about, go cycle of revenge!

actually, a race like the vasari (not the vasari themselves, but trying to edge out a new bit of territory for themselves) would make for an interesting enemy or even ally?

I just watched it myself, and i'm inclined to agree.  It had the best story since Water, which i also liked.  It's just that that do too much personal drama in all the other episodes for most people to appreiate the times when they do it right.

Seeing the ship, it's not damaged.  I'm convinced Rush will use it to escape, whether through repairing it, or accidentally activating some sort of emergency beacon and the owner-race finding him.

:ninja:-Exile

I am actually looking forward to the return of SGU because of that last episode. Who knows what will happen with the extreme change in circumstance. They don't have their lead scientist anymore! go stargate universe writers.

Their lead scientist now has a starship/shuttlecraft of his own by which he can intercept the Destiny.

 

as soon as he fixes it and learns how to fly it.  he would also need to know the course of the destiny of course,

 

lead scientists, lead military officers are easily replaced.  perhaps not the experience that they had but eli has the abilities or better than anyone else on board.  he just needs the confidence to use it.

uhh... i know its going to play a part... but i doubt that shuttle itself is going to get him back to the Destiny because 1. i figure the Destiny is travelling much faster than that shuttle could, and 2. Rush etc had to go through a stargate to get to the shuttle, so they're already very far away to begin with....

more than likely he uses it to contact the shuttles owner race and then...

How big was it?  I'm wondering if it would fit in the stargate...probably not...

Also, Rezonator is probably right.  He'll either contact the creators, or they'll find him..i've been over this...

:ninja:-Exile