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I am a bit worried about....

I am a bit worried about....

Hey all. More and more informations are available about the game, this is fantastic. The game looks great so far, but I am a bit worried about the "simplicity" of the combat system. What I mean is this: We won't have various damage types like blunt, piercing, slashing etc. [& "defense" types, so that X armor should offer some protection against blunt dmg, while some other armor should offer more protection against piercing dmg for example...etc..] in Elemental if I am correct.

All units/creatures will have att and def attributes only. Basically this looks like the Civ4 combat system, and I never liked it, because it's very primitive and the combat results are very random.

Any opinions?

27,291 views 33 replies
Reply #26 Top

Quoting endofdayz, reply 25

This isn't unique to this aspect of the game, but in topics covering many areas of the game, people are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment. Everyone seems to want their own particular interest area to be an incredibly deep and involved game in it's own right, and it's just not going to happen.


 

Very true. I read one thread about how the game needs a complex espionage system to even be decent, another one rambles about the complex naval sim that just has to be there. Diplomacy, AI, magic, etc... everyone want this game to be thier own little masterpiece and what there going to end up with is a spore repeat *shudders*

Very true? Not really, at least not in our case. Having a decent "naval system" for example =| having a decent combat system. Why? Because a decent combat system should be a core part of a tactical strategy/war game.

Reply #27 Top

I guess the devs are going for the much simpler combat route because the aim is more of a Empire Management game akin to Civ rather than a warfare focused game like TW or HoMM.

He! he! i guess i am one of those who will be disappointed as i was hoping for more meat to the combat. I loved the fun desparate battles i fought in TW series and RTK series.In those series a well placed army at bottlenecks, bridges or forts could inflict heavy damage onto much larger armies making strategic army placement/movement very important as opposed to just swarming in with superior numbers. Playing as Gauls i loved ambushing the Romans in the forests where i got bonuses. I also always ensured my Gauls stopped on defensible positions like hills because the Romans had a far superior army and i needed the extra bonuses i got from fighting from a high ground.

In MoM i got annoyed at the combat simply because there was really no viable way to defend against the swarms of enemy armies except by building a bigger better army yourself. Warfare basically boiled down to a race between who could churn out the better army fastest. And the winner of the race was usually decided by who could grab the most land in the beginning.

Reply #28 Top

Well, I'm no expert of MoM but it seemed to me that magic and the choice of units play a big role during combat.
My flocks of Wyverns have been turned to shred by a handful of well protected slingers and a few well placed spells on numerous occasions.

Reply #29 Top

so is it going to be a D&D(4e) damage system then?

 

and what if the spearmen Vs. Calvery system worked like civ 4 -certian units (or weapons) get bonuses agaist other units

Reply #30 Top

Quoting Torment, reply 26

Very true? Not really, at least not in our case. Having a decent "naval system" for example =| having a decent combat system. Why? Because a decent combat system should be a core part of a tactical strategy/war game.

Well, a decent combat system doesn't need bludgeonging, piercing, slashing and so on. MoM has a more than decent combat type and it didn't have those things. I would like resistances and damages related to magic (fire, ice,...) but the slashing and piercing thing doesn't seem a good addition (too complex).

Just like DnD has got away of those things with the passing years.

Reply #31 Top

It doesn't need to be that complicated to be enjoyable.  Think of the total war series where all the combat math is attack rolls against defence rolls, with modifiers.

Reply #32 Top

Quoting Netaddict45, reply 31
It doesn't need to be that complicated to be enjoyable.  Think of the total war series where all the combat math is attack rolls against defence rolls, with modifiers.

Complicated? It's not complicated, it's called tactical combat system. X unit is decent vs. Y unit, but it's not so good against Z. It's realistic & fun and not complicated.

I hope you understand my point. Elemental will have a tactical combat system [Civ4 doesn't have that for example], and it should be decent enough. It's a core part of the game, isn't it?

We still don't have answers from the devs. Can we mod in new dmg types? What about resistances? Is it possible to mod in armors with X% of fire resistance for example?

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Denryu, reply 13
... The question is, if units do not have different resistances to different elements, aren't fire damage, ice damage, posion damage etc essentially the same thing? The only way I see them making any difference is if particular creatures or units have specific resistances to those different elements. ...

Seems like picking damage flavors that had nothing more than cosmetic effects would be dull in the long run. Ideally, I'd like to see some high-cost general defense enchantments as well as less costly things like +1 vs. Fire magic or whatever.

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 24
This isn't unique to this aspect of the game, but in topics covering many areas of the game, people are setting themselves up for some serious disappointment. Everyone seems to want their own particular interest area to be an incredibly deep and involved game in it's own right, and it's just not going to happen.

You forget wildly demanding customers like me. I want *every* part of the game to be as deep as it can and I want an automation-rich, keyboard-friendly UI on top of it. Total control freaks should be able to twiddle nearly everything every turn, but the game should also work for people who want to make a bunch of broad decisions, delegate supervision of most of that, and focus their UI time on the areas that they find most interesting.

Of course that kind of thing might be philosophically impossible for the scoring/multiplayer crowd.