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Making Cap abilities viable

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Making Cap abilities viable

Where's the balance?

from Sins Forums

So there's been a bit of dicussion on balance lately. Most of it's focused on other things so far, but some caps have long been more viable than others. I'm looking to see what the community thinks would be fairly balancing in regards to buffs and debuffs in the abilities.

I'll start with my suggestions and opinions, and I'll be trying to keep things away from what we already have. Try and get a bit more diversity into the game.

Color coded for fun. :D

TEC:

Kol:  Fine as is.

Sova:  Fine as is.

Akkan: Buff

Colonize+:  Fine as is.

Ion Bolt: Change AM from 85/85/85 to 85/80/75. (AM intensive, gives more incentive to level it up. Only good for interrupting anyways.)

Targeting Uplink: Change Accuracy bonus from 5/10/15 to 6/12/18, change Range bonus from 8/17/25 to 10/20/30. (Allows Flak to take out SC just a bit faster and gives the longer ranged TEC ships a bit more of a boost.)

Armistice: Fine as is.

Dunov:  Fine as is.

Marza: Mixed

Radiation Bomb: Fine as is.

Raze Planet: Fine as is.

Incendiary Shells: Allow it to stack, change Damage/Sec from 3/4.5/6 to 1/2/3, change duration from 15 to 8. (Not really that much of a buff. The Rate of Fire of a Marza allows it to maintain a stack at about 3.)

Missile Barrage: Bump up graphics more.

Advent:

Radiance: Buff

Detonate Antimatter: Fine as is.

Animosity: Fix so that debuffed ships cannot attack other ships with any weapon that could attack the Radiance. Add 2% Mitigation, change cooldown from 35 to 45. (Actually makes it useful, since as is you just give a new order.)

Energy Absorption Armor: Fine as is.

Cleansing Brilliance: Fine as is.

Halcyon:  Fine as is.

Progenitor: Mixed

Colonize+:   Fine as is.

Malice: Change target cap from 8/16/24 to 12/20/28.

Shield Regeneration: Change shields restored per second from 37.5/50/62.5 to 37.5/47.5/57.5. (Another awesome ability. Ready the flames, plz.)

Resurrection: Fine as is.

Rapture: Fine as is.

Revelation: Buff

Reverie: Fine as is.

Guidance:  Add 3/6/9 AM recharge. (Make it useful. You just run out of antimatter faster otherwise.)

Clairvoyance: Start with Autocast off.

Provoke Hysteria: Fine as is.

Vasari:

Kortul: Buff

Power Surge:  Fine as is.

Jam Weapons:  Fine as is.

Disruptive Strikes:  Fine as is.

Volatile Nanites: Change debuff range from 2000 to 2500, change damage upon death range from 1000 to 1250, change damage upon death from 150 to 200. (A bit more useful against large fleets.)

Skirantra: Buff

Repair Cloud: Fine as is.

Scramble Bombers: Kill this ability. (Move it to Lasurak or something. Suggestions for replacement welcome.) 

Microphasing Aura: Fine as is.

Replicate Forces: Change from 3 copies to 6 copies. (Much more useful in smaller groups.)

Jarrasul: Mixed

Colonize+: Change Duration from 240/480/720 to 240/360/600,  add 1/2/3 extra constructors for duration of buff. (Building structures really, really fast for a short while. Not like you're going to take this over others often.)

Gravity Warhead: Fine as is.

Nano-disassembler:  Fine as is.

Drain Planet: Fine as is.

Antorak: Buff

Phase Out Hull:  Fine as is.

Distort Gravity:  Fine as is.

Subversion: Change build rate penalty from 50/100/150 to 100/200/300, add damage over time to amount to 8/12/16% of planet health and 5/7.5/10% of population, change AM from 100/100/100 to 100/110/125, change cooldown from 75 to 150, remove stacking. (Powerful now. For damage, remember that it's over 5/7.5/10 minutes. Using stacking means the ships has to wait there or you have mutiple of these, both of which go against the hit-and-run nature of them.)

Stabilize Phase Space: Fine as is.

Vulkoras: Buff

Phase Missile Swarm: Change to fire Phase Missiles with 15/30/45% chance to bypass shields. (Again, more a bug fix.) 

Deploy Siege Platforms:  Fine as is.

Assault Specialization: Fine as is.

Disintegration:  Fine as is.

 

:fox:

262,111 views 189 replies
Reply #176 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting N3rull, reply 147
I think a player could start with 2 capital ship crews available.

Fist cap should be free, as it is.
Second should require construction costs only.
Third should require additional research.

That way building a second cap is not excessively expensive, and would encourage doing it if someone is not doing econ.
Mind that you still need the first fleet supply upgrade done to build the second cap, unless you scuttle all your frigates (no scouts/colony frigs to capture extractors - generally a poor idea, but at least a tactical option). So it's not too big of a discount.

I also think this is a good idea.

Quoting N3rull, reply 147

I also think all races should have means of constructing higher level caps in later game. There is usually zero point in building a lvl 1 cap and bring it to a dense 80-HC battle. Paying some 8k credits to build a cap and have it trained to level 4 is just a tad too much.
Advent already can do it - their ships automatically level up thanks to a research.
Vasari/TEC should also have such an option. For example, a three-level tier6/7 research saying "Reduces the cost of purchasing levels on capital ships by 20/40/60%".

Or allowing purchasing of Level 5 via a second level to the existing techs.  As suggested in this thread comparing the cost of: Purchasing Cap Ship Levels.

Reply #177 from Sins Forums Top

Major changes proposed for the next patch. Updated the list even though the patch isn't out yet. I dragged my heels a bit on making that Scramble Bombers replacement on purpose as I suspected they had something in mind already. New ideas welcome.

 

:fox:

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Reply #178 from Sins Forums Top

Adept Drone Anima reworked - now grants 1/2/3 extra squadrons instead of 1/2/3 extra strikecraft per squadron.

Hey, my suggestion made it through ^_^

This will make the ability equally useful for low level as well as high level Halcyons.  I don't see it replacing the push/amplification combo, but if I ever pick up a second Halcyon I might seriously consider push/anima since I already have amplification.

 

I like all the TEC changes; far as I'm concerned they're all good as is now (well, cept missile barrage, but that's a discussion worthy of its own thread).

 

Disruptive Strikes now acts as an interrupt.

Second Vasari interrupt!  Woot!  Great choice of ship, too; the Kortul is now heavily competing with the Skirantra for my second pick.  Jam weapons is now a very formidable ability; it will no longer be feasible to simply stagger your assault to avoid this ability, making it quite unique amongst strike craft disablers.

 

Scramble bombers is still, IMO, worthless.  Repair cloud is one of the game's strongest abilities, easily a match (if not the superior) of the legendary shield restore ability.  I'd rather save my antimatter for that.  Scramble bombers has to become "teh shit" to actually compete with it for precious antimatter reserves, much in the same way malice must compete with shield restore.

 

Nanos nerf was quite reasonable; still one of the game's most fearsome abilities.  Actually I'll have to double-check, level 1 nanos might have been buffed because it can now 1-hit certain types of ships it couldn't before.  Phase out hull is pretty dangerous now. Desolator is fricken awesome, but I don't understand why they didn't touch PMS.  No matter, I'll just stick to how I've always used it; as a massive armoured siege frigate.  Siege platforms got a huge buff here, I can't wait to try them out.

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #179 from Sins Forums Top

I recently made a post in the Capital Carriers topic about what to do w/the Skirantra's Scramble Bombers ability.  It goes thusly:

Nanite Shockwave: The Skirantra releases a massive discharge of Nanites from its hull, disabling enemy abilities and also collectively linking their fates, causing them to take an equivalent amount of damage spread across the affected ships.  Costs 100 AM.

LEVEL 1: Range - 4000 km, 15% Damage is shared
LEVEL 2: Range - 6000 km, 30% Damage is shared
LEVEL 3:Range - 8000 km, 50% Damage is shared

Just throwing that out there, though I realize that Patch 1.04 is virtually right around the corner, and likely won't get implemented... ^_^'

Reply #180 from Sins Forums Top

The patch is pretty much finalized.  If anything on that list gets changed, it means it'll get delayed.

Reply #181 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 178

Scramble bombers is still, IMO, worthless.  Repair cloud is one of the game's strongest abilities, easily a match (if not the superior) of the legendary shield restore ability.  I'd rather save my antimatter for that.  Scramble bombers has to become "teh shit" to actually compete with it for precious antimatter reserves, much in the same way malice must compete with shield restore.
 

Scramble Bombers now has some use, because it's cooldown and AM regeneration is so much cheaper. I could actually see it having some use when clearing out neutral planets, because an additional Bomber every half minute does help crush Kodiaks. Though it still is probably the worst Capital ship ability in the game.

Not sure about Repair Cloud being superior to Shield Restore. Against another Vasari player, it is better, but Shield Restore going through the shields first does make it have an edge. It is pretty close late-game, though.

This Sins update is going to make the Akkan and Sova essentials for a TEC feeder, and that makes me extremely happy. Akkan having its new extraction bonus will be extremely useful. And the Sova... well, now it's worth sending it into enemy lines, disrupting income AND destroying buildings with more Missile Batteries and superior Heavy SC. And building up trade is even better with the now extremely good Rapid Manufacturing. I'm going to have a real blast using Sovas again. ^_^

Reply #182 from Sins Forums Top

Scramble Bombers now has some use, because it's cooldown and AM regeneration is so much cheaper. I could actually see it having some use when clearing out neutral planets, because an additional Bomber every half minute does help crush Kodiaks. Though it still is probably the worst Capital ship ability in the game.

If you need to kill militia, get a Jerrasul (or possibly Kortul).  If you need to siege planets, get a Vulkoras (or possibly raise a Jerrasul...).  If you need to kill capital ships, get a Jerrasul (or possibly Antorak now).  If you need to heal your ships, get a Skirantra.  That's its role, that will always be its role, and any ability that uses antimatter is competing with this ship's primary purpose for that precious resource.  This is why the ability is still worthless in my eyes, and why I will always get the passive ability to complement repair cloud.

Not sure about Repair Cloud being superior to Shield Restore. Against another Vasari player, it is better, but Shield Restore going through the shields first does make it have an edge. It is pretty close late-game, though.

Shields aren't affected by armour.  Combine overseers with lots of armour upgrades and this healing ability becomes phenomenal.  Also it can be used while moving, the cap doesn't need to be stationary.

And building up trade is even better with the now extremely good Rapid Manufacturing

Heh, no one's realized yet that rapid manufacturing = 300% faster starbase construction.  Sova could become the king of offensive starbasing.

Reply #183 from Sins Forums Top

rapid manufacturing = 300% faster starbase construction. Sova could become the king of offensive starbasing.

This shouldn't effect SBs imo. The Vasari are supposed to rely on offensive starbasing so it would be unfair to give the TEC this.

 

Reply #184 from Sins Forums Top

Friendly planets only. The buff is applied to the planet, rather than from the Sova. So the target Filter is set to Friendly only.

 

:fox:

Reply #185 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to hear that.

Marauder+Overseer is going to be one hell of a combo when it comes to preventing your caps from dying to FF.

Reply #186 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Darvin3, reply 182

Heh, no one's realized yet that rapid manufacturing = 300% faster starbase construction.  Sova could become the king of offensive starbasing.

Unfortunately, Rapid Manufacturing's construction rates only apply to your own (And possibly allies', I don't remember) planets. However, this will really help TEC bring out fleets fast. Imagine using Rapid Manufacturing on a frigate factory heavy planet. Building up entire fleets within a minute? Heck yeah! ^_^

Still, the Sova will probably remain a situational Capital ship (While all the TEC Capitals are now instantly useful), but in the right circumstances, it'll be REALLY good. ^_^

Reply #187 from Sins Forums Top

Too bad; I'd have loved to have seen a Sova-siege strategy.  In any case, I think the Sova is definitely far more respectable now.

Also, I looked up some stats last night and... well... I'd highly recommend buying your first hull point upgrade in a Vasari vs Vasari game now.  Level 1 nanos now kills assailants in a single shot (used to leave them within an inch of their life, now it kills because it deals 25 more damage over its lifespan).  Now, I could be wrong because (accounting for health regeneration) it deals exactly as much damage as necessary to kill them, so if there's even a slight timing issue I'm unaware of them could survive with 1 hit point.

Reply #188 from Sins Forums Top

I'm so happy my phase-out hull idea made it in!

 

Anyways, I just can't begin to say how excited I am about the Kortul buff!!!  They fixed it, they bugged, it disables!  I'm just so happy. :')   Throw that in with some other upgrades like the Antorak's improved guerilla abilities :grin: , the buffs to the Kol, Sova, and Akkan, and I can't begin to say how happy I am right now with the devs! :dur:  

Reply #189 from Sins Forums Top

By the way, apparently Progen colonize took a nerf but someone forgot to include that in the list.  It's now 15/30/45 discount per level, with duration 360/480/600