Anybody else find the Unfair AI TOO easy?

from Sins Forums

The AI in Entrenchment IS more intelligent.  I'll grant that.  It'll avoid static defenses. Sometimes it'll even come around on the "back" phase lanes and attack from an unexpected angle.  But my problems now stem from that if it doesn't beat me/us(allied friend) in the first 20 minutes, it plays an awful endgame!  It'll build few capital ships (I build a lot), it won't level them well, it doesn't build endgame weapons, it definitely does not research much (I'm always #1...even with Unfair Researcher AI!), and (biggest gripe!) it doesn't seem to co-operate with its allies (BIG problem in making it harder)...Any time I see more than one AI attack me at one gravity well or happen to jointly defend another gravity well, I chalk it up to chance...it's rare.  If those 3 Unfair AI hit me at once with decent fleets...Well, I might actually have a reason for my friend to come help me out.  Or if two defended a massive attack by me and drove me back and pursued the advantage...kudos...good teamwork there for them.  They don't, though.  That's the problem.

As it stands now, it seems like allied AI just have an agreement to not attack each other.  They don't really co-operate.  They don't put enough resources into research or capital ships and level them up.  And without that, after I've settled myself in with an economy(20-30 minutes), they can't seem to win.  The game may go on for hours, but it's a foregone conclusion that they won't be able to overpower me/us.  It becomes a tedious operation of wiping out their planets one by one.

That's my beef(mmm...steak. Now I'm hungry!).  Hoping a future update or expansion will address, at least, the issue of cooperation among AI.  If they worked together on attacks and defenses, they could be pretty formidable even with a lack of capital ships and research upgrades.

Please?

32,168 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

 

Solution -- don't be a wuss, and come play Sins in online multiplayer (aka the real Sins game) against live human opponents.  Just click the Ironclad Online button, register an account, think of a player name, and you'll be good to go.

You'll find that real opponents are much more challenging than AI.  Also, contrary to popular belief, most online multiplayer Sins games don't last more than 2 hours.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Hi!

Solution -- don't be a wuss, and come play Sins in online multiplayer (aka the real Sins game) against live human opponents.

I watched some games of "pro" players. I really haven't got the impression they're that good...

... until I ran a small 20-planets all-normal game vs. one unfair AI, but with one limitation: WITHOUT PRESSING A PAUSE BUTTON. :omg:

I was overwhelmed. Now I know whay they missed upgrading planets, building SCs in their new carriers, overlooking planets ripe for taking... Too much to do, too easy to overlook not-so-critical things.

I can't play that way a strategy game. I'm the sit-'n-think type, and can't stand making mistakes and overlooks just because I'm in a hurry. I'm also too old to compete with teenagers in a click-fest. Until that's resolved (and it will likely NEVER be), I'm a sigle player. Pitty still. :(

BR,  Iztok

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Try 9 Unfair AI's all aggressive, mod the gameconstant files to make them harder then, make them build defenses like crazy

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I'm right there with ya, old man. :)

 

Quoting IztokBitenc, reply 2
Hi!


Solution -- don't be a wuss, and come play Sins in online multiplayer (aka the real Sins game) against live human opponents.
I watched some games of "pro" players. I really haven't got the impression they're that good...

... until I ran a small 20-planets all-normal game vs. one unfair AI, but with one limitation: WITHOUT PRESSING A PAUSE BUTTON.

I was overwhelmed. Now I know whay they missed upgrading planets, building SCs in their new carriers, overlooking planets ripe for taking... Too much to do, too easy to overlook not-so-critical things.

I can't play that way a strategy game. I'm the sit-'n-think type, and can't stand making mistakes and overlooks just because I'm in a hurry. I'm also too old to compete with teenagers in a click-fest. Until that's resolved (and it will likely NEVER be), I'm a sigle player. Pitty still.

BR,  Iztok

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting CenturionJixra, reply 1
 

Solution -- don't be a wuss, and come play Sins in online multiplayer (aka the real Sins game) against live human opponents.  Just click the Ironclad Online button, register an account, think of a player name, and you'll be good to go.

You'll find that real opponents are much more challenging than AI.  Also, contrary to popular belief, most online multiplayer Sins games don't last more than 2 hours.

 

That's not really a helpful reply to the issue of the AI ignoring key benefits of gameplay.  I don't want a short game of rush tactics and lack of total galactic conquest.  The AI is ignoring key strategies of the game that could greatly improve its challenge rating.

 

Find me players who are going to play multiple-galaxy universes for a 6 hour long game over the course of 1.5 weeks and can meet my schedule to resume from saves.  You're not going to find them and neither am I.  So that leaves me playing with friends and the hardest AIs.  I've seen pretty impressive AIs that have taken me long periods of time to outfox, but the Sins AI is lacking.

 

Can I have a 40 minute game online in a tiny galaxy with players who spam siege frigates?  Sure.  Do I want to?  Hell no. Where's the strategic breadth and scope in a epic 4X RTS like Sins playing like that?

 

I do agree with you that I would find more challenging adaptable opponents online...and I do play several other games against human opponents.  But Sins, due to its time requirements in the manner I would enjoy it, isn't going to be one of them.

 

For a game lacking a campaign, (and I'm fine with this, I wouldn't play it anyway), it seems like the AI should be far superiour to how it currently plays.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Mooster, reply 3
Try 9 Unfair AI's all aggressive, mod the gameconstant files to make them harder then, make them build defenses like crazy

 

I had thought that mods couldn't touch the AI's build/strategy tactics.  How would you do this?  Is anybody working on AI enhancements?

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

THERE'S A PAUSE BUTTON!!!! WHERE???

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting meyerk, reply 7
THERE'S A PAUSE BUTTON!!!! WHERE???

 

Do people actually play this by pausing to issue commands?  I don't and even manage to micromanage my capital ships' abilities.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Before I played online I did sometimes.. playing online really taught me how to play fast and take advantage of keyboard shortcuts and other things so I can manage an empire, multiple projects, and still micro cap ship abilities and fighters.  Going back to single player, even against unfair AI, feels like a walk in the park.  Sure the strategy against AI is different but skills gained from playing online carry over.

 

If the unfair AI is too easy, set yourself alone against a few teams of AIs.  Even harder, go alone vs two or three unfair AI.  True they don't coordinate as well as they could, but when you're the only target.. look out! :)

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

If the unfair AI is too easy, set yourself alone against a few teams of AIs. Even harder, go alone vs two or three unfair AI. True they don't coordinate as well as they could, but when you're the only target.. look out!

I did that. :) 9 AIs

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

No seriously, where's the pause button.  I'm tired of not being able to stop to talk to my friends etc. 

Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting meyerk, reply 11
No seriously, where's the pause button.  I'm tired of not being able to stop to talk to my friends etc. 

On your keyboard (well, mine at least, but it's a really basic/standard model, so I hope it's the same) right after all the function keys (F1, F2.....) there is another group that has Print Screen/sys Rq, Scroll Lock, and... Ta Da! Pause/Break.  Seriously, it says Pause right on the key! :P

If your keyboard doesn't have it, I'd recommend looking through the key binding section of the options menu.

Hope you find it!

btw I don't think it works in multi player.

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting meyerk, reply 11
No seriously, where's the pause button.  I'm tired of not being able to stop to talk to my friends etc. 

 

Well in single player you could just bring up the main menu to talk. The main benifit of the pause button is that you can issue orders. But you're not alone, it took me months to figure out the pause button actually pauses the game.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

it does, actually.  However, there's a 10 pause limit (for all players I believe) and anyone can resume

(quoting 2 posts above)

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Dostillevi1, reply 9


If the unfair AI is too easy, set yourself alone against a few teams of AIs.  Even harder, go alone vs two or three unfair AI.  True they don't coordinate as well as they could, but when you're the only target.. look out!

 

I did 8 players (one being me, the rest were Unfair AI) in teams of two.  I won, and was rather bored crushing their planets one by one by the end game.  Oh, and my Unfair AI teammate couldn't take one planet from the other Unfair AIs.  He'd go in with a large fleet, lose said large fleet, complain that I wasn't backing him up at the other end of the galaxy while I was killing 2 other AIs, and rebuild and repeat....think he attacked the same planet 7 times before I finally met up with him by conquering everything around it.  From then on, I just issued attack/defend orders for where he should go and send my fleet at the same time.  I was playing the strategic side of things for him!

 

I'll try multiple AI all allied against me, but I would really rather see the AI "play smarter" than resorting to that method.  There's a greater chance that maybe 3 will attack me at once and 2 will be defending the same gravity well that I'm attacking when there are so many additional AI players, but I'd rather not depend on chance to get a good challenge/fight.  IF they put more resources into capital ships, co-operated/coordinated with their teammates, and actually researched military tech to make their ships more formidable, they'd be challenging.  But I'm just repeating my original complaint here.

 

In regards to the "Pause key"....it works during multiplayer, you can't chat while paused (it is registered but doesn't come up until you unpause), and there's a pause limit of 10 times per player, I think.