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Possible Entrenchment exploit

Possible Entrenchment exploit

I was just thinking - what are the developers going to do about the tactic of Ogonev spamming (the new missile cruisers).  Then someone could simply take out a starbase or loads of facilities by launching from max range before the forces there can react.

 

Could you do is so that each missile fired is an object that can be destroyed before reaching its target?  That would make it possible to defeat this tactic.

 

If you've already thought of this, you guys are truly brilliant.

57,994 views 34 replies
Reply #26 Top

Would doing the following help in creating more fleets scattered throughout an empire rather than one big fleet?

 

Make planets die faster but with mitigation so that more ships on one planet isn't as productive as few ships on many planets - Might be tough to implement but could work. If someone sends out one big fleet and has to wait a similar time to kill a planet, it would hopefully encourage people to attack with mutliple fleets across many planets.

 

Make ships jump slower - I'm worried about this because it could slow the game down when I feel the game is already a good pace, if not a bit slow.

 

Design maps around the stars rather than planets (I've done this in galaxy forge with some really fun results) - make everything in a star connected to one another. Only a couple planets per star (3 max). Many stars (5-10)

This one is the only one I've tested and I've had really good results. A typical map in sins may have tons of jumps between homeworlds but everything boils down to a couple choke point planets. This focuses the battle on one area which allows easy massing of fleets and encourages spamming large numbers.  

By having many stars and few planets for each, an attack can come to any of your worlds quite easily as there are many points of entrance. By having solar systems completely connected it makes traveling easier within and if you have a fleet stationed within the solar system it can jump to the needed locations quickly and efficiently. Having just one fleet though, it can be very difficult to have to jump from your attack location all the way back to a undefended star system.

Some issues I found originally was that jumping between stars was time consuming, so I've placed the stars much closer to one another. In addition I've created some choke points by creating layers within a solar system, but having most of the colonizables connected to one another and the star. This creates diversity in the game by having choke points in strategic locations only, rather than everywhere on the map.**

 

Make the game more capital ship intensive (cheaper and slightly more available). I've seen people argue that caps will become overpowered if they are cheaper, but the neat thing with caps is that they have a maximum amount. As long as they aren't made unreasonably cheap, they will just become more prevalent as you can only build a certain amount of them. something like 2300 credits, 250 metal and 150 crystal as a minimum and 2600 credits, 300 metal, 200 crystal as a maximum.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/329761

EDIT 

Wow this post got a lot longer than I though, and I'm not sure if it even relates to the topic! I'm going to make a thread on this.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/332389

 

**side note, only read if you have spare time as this is off topic: I do find it odd in sins that the game is quite linear in map design. A traditional strategy game like Age of Empires, Rise of Nations or Command and Conquer, attacks would come from one direction of the map (the opposite side) but could come from almost anywhere in that direction. The big fear with space strategy is that space is 3D and attacks could come from anywhere and make things really messy. Sins almost takes it too far in the opposite direction by placing everything around phase lanes. All attacks are coming from one or two directions with little freedom.

Reply #27 Top

Make planets die faster but with mitigation so that more ships on one planet isn't as productive as few ships on many planets - Might be tough to implement but could work. If someone sends out one big fleet and has to wait a similar time to kill a planet, it would hopefully encourage people to attack with mutliple fleets across many planets.

All this will achieve is people spamming seige frigates to all your planets as a few at each planet will quickly take out your planets out due to the lack of mitigation as you described....

Reply #28 Top

Wouldn't that easily be countered with a couple carriers in each planet?

 

Actually, even just 3 or 4 LF's would do the trick if you have hangars.

 

Hopefully that would force the opponent to bring in LRMs to counter the LF"s which you'd have to counter with carriers and so and so forth until each area would require a small fleet to be guarding it.

 

NO?

 

Also, I've tried to move this discussion out of this thread because we're derailing it a bit. I created a new topic for this discussion, linked for your pleasure ;) : https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/332389

Reply #29 Top

I think the idea of the Starbase is for everyone to explore new areas and use mixed Fleets ive played a few games in spare time on-line and ive noticed the spam of one ship class or two.

Tho i do agree the starbase is going to make a good edition to the defence tree and should prove interesting at choke points  but i dont see how the Starbase can hit everything everything in the Gravwell there going to be a planet in the way the reason i bring this up is what happends when your surrounded?? the starbae firing Arch is going to be limited

Excuse the grammer ive had no sleep

Reply #30 Top

To answer the original question, I think your assuming the Torpedo Ships will be able to kill the starbase in a few salvos. The way i am seeing it is that the torpedo ships will not actualy do as much damage as a capital ship, or even a Kodiak/Enforcer/Crusaider, But they will be able to do it from range. The star base will be able to hit them, but not with all of its weapons, only its really long range ones.

 

So if you do go in with nothing but Torpedo ships you will need alot of them to take the starbase down, and i bet they are expensive. Plus the starbase has fighters and such and i rember hearing they can build ships, so your going to need some Garda's to keep the strike craft off and some frigates or crusiers to fend off the ships the starbase builds, plus any other defenses, and at this point your actualy attacking with a mixed fleet, not just a torpedo ship swarm.

 

The exception to this is if you jump in with like 1000 torpedo ships, that probably will kill the starbase quickly and effiecently, but it's also a great way to loose the game too, since your entire fleet is tied up in siege ships.

 

And then on unrelated points, does anyone know how many star bases you can build? and if you can have more than one in a gravity well? 5 starbases in at one planet would be insane. Or having your own starbase in a gravity well with an enemy starbase and have them slug each other.

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Silveus, reply 5

And then on unrelated points, does anyone know how many star bases you can build? and if you can have more than one in a gravity well? 5 starbases in at one planet would be insane. Or having your own starbase in a gravity well with an enemy starbase and have them slug each other.

If I remember correctly from the original description of this expansion, there is no limit to how many SB's you can have (as they do not count against your cap).  However, they are so resource and credit expensive that you will only be able to build a few of them at the most (and that will be at the expense of not building/teching some other things in the mean-time).

Also, it will be possible to have two SB's fighting each other in the same grav well.  A SB can be built anywhere.  The only downside to this is actually getting it built.  There will be a special builder ship for this and this ship can fly anwhere and build anywhere, BUT it will take a very long time to build the SB...so you will need to have a nice fleet with the "Builder" in order to protect it long enough to get the SB built in the first place.

Can you just see all of the strats arising from this expansion???B)

Reply #32 Top

Cykur's handy steps regarding new features (in this case starbases) .....

 

1.  Wait for Feature to be Implemented by Devs

2.  Blow up Feature if it is Overpriced...Get slaughtered by Feature if it is Overpowered

3.  Complain

4.  Flame / Argue

5.  Repeat Steps 2 thru 4 Until Patch

6.  Repeat Steps 2 thru 5 with New Results

Reply #33 Top

Quoting Cataclysm2000, reply 11



Quoting TheSpydyr,
reply 10

Quoting posativ, reply 6
But then the starbase could just shoot the missile down. I think this torpedo ship has to fire usual missiles which can crack a starbase pretty fast (mayby 10-20 shots). You would have to station a small intercept force near the starbase, or place the starbase so that it can attack ships at the gravwells edge.

Um, if I remember correctly, it was stated that Starbases can fire anywhere with a planets well...or was it the upgrades to the defense turrets???  The whole point was to stop fleets from moving around the set up defenses of a well to the other side of the planet and be able to effectively kill the planet while escaping the defenses of the planet at the same time.  Hence the whole notion of Entrenchment being a huge DEFENSIVE expansion.  This will also allow for your fleet to focus more on being OFFENSIVE and not having to run back to the planet being attacked to defend.

Is everyone ready to dig into their defensive positions and do some major damage???Can you say Starbase surrounded by 3-4 repair bays and ~20 turrets? I WILL NEVER LOSE A PLANET AGAIN! MUAHAHAHA!


BTW, thats not an exploit... thats a tactic. I assume anti-starbase ships will be proportionally as expensive as starbases themselves making the "Ogarev Zerg Rush" a rare tactic

 

That's probably why you can only have so many... it COULD be possible, on small, 10-15 planet maps to have 2 starbases at one planet... can you say Pwned?!:rofl:

Anyway, once you get into it though, a Starbase is essentially anything you want it to be and more...:drool: No matter what, it should act as a defensive platfor, hangar defense, trade port, frigate factory and broadcast center, it's not all about the big BOOM when it kills the enemy Flagship... You can upgrade it to be more of anything, although most will focus on the firepower.  Heck, a fully economy friendly Starbase can probably hold it's own anyway if you're smart enough to put smoe repair platforms, 4-5 hangar defense and uber turrets, and if you build everything close to one another, BANG there's your planet defense... heck, NOW even my planet defenses can stall an invading fleet until it is no more, I use 1 Phase Jump Inhibitor, 1 shield generator(TEC only), 6 Hangar defense(9 bombers, 3 Fighters) and 3 repair platforms, all customly placed within spitting distance of each other.

 

Koda0

Reply #34 Top

heck, NOW even my planet defenses can stall an invading fleet until it is no more, I use 1 Phase Jump Inhibitor, 1 shield generator(TEC only), 6 Hangar defense(9 bombers, 3 Fighters) and 3 repair platforms, all customly placed within spitting distance of each other.

I'm assuming this is vs AI???

A fleet of 6 vassari/TEC carriers split 1/2 and 1/2 would be able to clear those defenses ready for a seige frigate assult... You would only need 4 if you were using advent....