Defensive Abilities in Sins

Defense

from Stardock Forums

So Sins of a Solar Empire has already set some awesome precedents for how strategy and tactics ought to be handled in a real time strategy game.

One thing though that I have lamented over many times while sending my fleets out to wipe out a Vasari strike force is the lack of any decent defensive measures or options for players.  The current true options for the defense of a system or system chain revolve around the turbolaser like batteries, starfighter platforms, jump drive inhibitors, and planetary shields.

All well and good until you realize that none of them are sufficient to defend a system without the existence of a fleet to support it.  I'm not just talking about a system defense force, I'm talking about a real fleet.  The only thing system defenses are useful for is to slow an enemy down as he slowly works his way through your line of systems.  Otherwise, they're fairly useless.  I've heard many times online a player belitting another player for attemptign to build defensive fortifications of any kind.  It is this kind of mentality which stresses how utterly reliant tactics and strategy in Sins of a Solar Empire are on mobile fleet forces.

Towards creating a deeper, more challenging, and more attractive (from a strategic standpoint) gameplay variety in the game I have several suggestions for additions which may be useful.

Some I'm aware are supposedly allready scheduled for inclusion in the upcoming expansion, but I'll include those just for ducks.

I'd also like to point out that the tactical capacity for a planet/system absolutely needs to be increased, practically doubled, for defensive strategy to truly be any match for offensive mobile fleet strategy.  Otherwise fleets of any real size will always be able to best a planet without too much difficulty, especially one not backed by a fleet.

Jump Point Defenses:

As Sins of a Solar Empire incorporates fixed points from whereby a ship can transport itself across interstellar distances it only makes sense that any system defense incorporate elements designed to offer an opponent opposition at the point of entry into a planet's gravitational well (I just realized I've been referring to that as a system, but that's what I was meaning).  Effective elements of a defense of a planet's warp/jump point areas should include the following:

- mines (ship based)
- missiles (buoys or an element planted by a ship.  Single use.  Respond when an enemy enters their area of operation.)
- anti-fighter emplacements (kind of like an anti-personal fletchette launcher, what I was thinking of)
- fortifications (some kind of forts which could be slightly larger than gun turrets, fixed installations)
-


Planetary Defenses:

The second and arguably most important element to the defense of any planet must include serious defenses surrounding the planet itself.  These would include the following:

- surface based defensive installations (self-explanatory)
- orbital defense platforms (larger than warp point fortifications, but in fixed orbit around planet, different kinds with different weapons and functions for support)

I would also strongly recommend some other abilities aimed at slowing the propulsion of (enemy) ships.  Jump point inhibitors forcing longer charge times are all good and well, but something to actually slow an enemy's propulsion would be far superior.  Perhaps a second type of mine which would damage propulsion systems of ships going through, would be effective.  The huge starbase in the expansion set I had no doubt will be of absolutely critical value to any defense effort, but it still doesn't beget the point that if any real effort is to be encouraged to expend assets on defensive elements, there must be significant changes to allow a defense a real chance at success.

Also, I would recognize the fact that some mobile units will be required (defense fleet) when defending a system, but again that's secondary to the fact that the elements I suggested, and there are no doubt others that other people might suggest, are critical to the successful defense of any planet.

20,602 views 16 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Super Turtle FTW! B)

 

The expansion will address some of these issues, like the starbases.  They not only act as forts/orbital installations but also as factorys.

Mines are being introduced.

I hope we get surface installations, but that may be a bit much.

We already have Jump Point inhibitors.

Hangers are getting anti-aircraft weapons.

And turrets are getting upgrades too.

Hope this answers some of your questions. :)

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

You DO know the 1st expansion is all about defensive options, right?  I think it will be out in the next month or two.

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

"So Sins of a Solar Empire has already set some awesome precedents for how strategy and tactics ought to be handled in a real time strategy game.

One thing though that I have lamented over many times while sending my fleets out to wipe out a Vasari strike force is the lack of any decent defensive measures or options for players.  The current true options for the defense of a system or system chain revolve around the turbolaser like batteries, starfighter platforms, jump drive inhibitors, and planetary shields."

The fact of defense not being so effective has most would like, is direct linked with the strategy and tactics in the game. It was needed that sometimes one can loose a planet with so many arround. Its about, securing the shock points, and advancing to far shock points. I'm tesmony, that in this game the defense help and there is tactic to never loose any planet I player only till second patch or so.

It was for game balance it being relatively weak. Most people conplain things without knowing how bad it could affect gameplay and them later. Many would love cool and stronge defenses.. but then it would just be a game of securing one planet and moving to the next, to the point of boredom, no thinking, no tactic and planning ahead, only larbor clicking.

So be very carefull all of you, with this kind of thing. Your idea might be what would ruin the game for yourself. I can cleary say this because, I did played the game a lot, and could figure out how to protect the planets in almost every game,  but still people complained it was impossible, without even trying seriously.

I'm ok with them increasing defesive power, but then, balance is everything. Make new challenges in the game, make the AI less predictable. For exemple, as a tactics of protecting my planets, the best is that the enemy almost everytime use the same route or go for that last planet you got more close to them. So the thing, was just being close by, and trying to conquer planets close to that one so I could go there to defend if necessary.

And the main thing. The defenses were never meant to amass a enemy force, unless maybe (if to the max) a pirate army by itself. Its objective was to give you time, thats all. The enemy having to deal with that many turrets, was almost always enough time to lead the main force back there to defend.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

As others mentioned, Entrenchment is the defense boosting expansion. In addition to starbases (which can be customized and have a lot of firepower and long range), the regular defenses will get upgrades. The TEC gauss turrets will get a long range laser that rips through armor, and short range missile racks that target groups of ships. The Hangar will get a flak cannon to fight strike craft. And of course there's mine fields to mess up a fleet's otherwise good day.

To balance it all out all the races will get a defense buster ship, like the TEC Ogrov torpedo cruiser.

But I wouldn't count on planet-based defenses ever making it in-game.

And Entrenchment is out on November 18th ;)

 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Yay November 18th! ...Sadly I probably won't be getting it until all three expansions are released and it comes out in retail. Besides, I'm broke (or will be next week, oooo Dead Space perfect for Haloween).

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I hope that there are Minelayer ships in the game, it would be nice to send like ten to a sun and fill the entire grav well with mines. :)

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

It's because Entrenchment is coming out that this is a perfect time to touch up on simple defensive strategy.  Read through any good space opera science fiction book and you'll see that system defenses play as much of a role as mobile fleet operations do.

I'm aware of jump point inhibitors already being in the game. 

They only affect charge up time for going into jump space, it doesn't affect a starship's speed.  Having a second mine type which took out engines would be very effective.

The starbase concerns me a little since that's more like a headquarters then a defensive fortifications.  It's not like I can go out and build a starbase for each planet.  A fortification, imo, would cost a little more than a carrier and you'd be able to place it around a jump poin.  It'd be manned and have several different weapon systems.  Very different tactical value from a starbase.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, but you're doing something wrong if you need a starbase at every planet.  The whole idea is to build it where it offers good bonuses or to build it at chokepoints that protect several planetary systems behind it.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Speaking of Jump Inhibitors, what about an Inhibitor that affects the speed of hostile ships traveling toward your planet while they are still in Phase? And/Or a Catapault type Option that increases the Phase Jump travel and charge speed of your own ships.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Overheal1987, reply 9
Speaking of Jump Inhibitors, what about an Inhibitor that affects the speed of hostile ships traveling toward your planet while they are still in Phase? And/Or a Catapault type Option that increases the Phase Jump travel and charge speed of your own ships.

Vasari's Severun Overseer can be upgraded to gain the Jump Degradation ability, which slows phase jump speed of incoming enemy ships by 50%.

The Phase Accelerator artifact increases your ship's phase jump speed by 50%.

Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top

Well obviously I wouldn't suggest deploying a starbase at every planet.  that's why I suggested the creation of a warp point fortification, sufficiently smaller, but still stronger than a gauss turret.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

To balance it all out all the races will get a defense buster ship, like the TEC Ogrov torpedo cruiser.

Each faction will get a new means to bust defense but it won't neccessarily be a ship. :P

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

See what happens when you only reveal the TEC, and torture us with the rest? :(

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Blair, reply 12

To balance it all out all the races will get a defense buster ship, like the TEC Ogrov torpedo cruiser.
Each faction will get a new means to bust defense but it won't neccessarily be a ship.

1) you teasing, torturing, nasty bastards.

2) awesome. should cater to the guys who think races are not diverified enough and have identical ship layouts. but I am fairly curious what those other means could be, but we shall see.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Hmm. I can think of one ship type with enormous firepower, designed to fire at large stationary targets. It'd be perfect for shooting up a starbase.

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

I agree, most ships need better survivability. Either new abilities for the Hokinshos, Overseers, or  Guardians, or abilities for the ships themselves. I definitely think Reintegration isnt strong enough considering it takes your ship out of the action, and neither is Repair Cloud considering its short duration.