According to their THQ publisher, that is why IronLore recently closed their doors.

Too bad, the Titan Quest games were OK.

WWW Link

~ Wyndstar

Before I bought my PC, I've spent quite some time getting in touch with latest technological achievements in IT industry, studying prices, quality of products and such. As the result I got the best configuration I could have got for the money I had on me. When I was buying my fridge, I've spent time comparing volume, durability and power consumation of engine, quality of material used etc. The result was that I got the best fridge I could with money I dedicated to buying of same.

I have more than 400 pirated games. I've played most of them, and for most of them I compared gameplay, storyline, requirements, price and such. That resulted in buying some of those games (even the SP games that you pass once and forget them), and now I have some 20 original games. IMHO they were all worth the money I've spent on them and for some of them I would even pay double than what I've payed.

I had pirated version of DA and ToA, but when I found out that another expansion is coming out, and when I read what beta testers said about it I decided to start saving money for buying the whole series (I'm living in "barbarian" country where life standard is between 5 and 8 times lower than in US, so I needed quite some time to get the money needed). I had pirated copy of SoSE, I passed all the maps in SP, for no apparent reason and uninstalled it... I didn't buy it and I don't have any intention to do so, it's just not something I like.

Now, piracy in my country is partly illegal (anti-piracy laws started to get implemented last year, but the process is slow). In my particular case there is no law that could allow any1 to sue me (with hope of positive outcome) for piracy. Anyway, speaking hypothetically, if I lived say in US I would still have 400 pirated games, but instead of 20 originals I would prolly have around 50 or 60 in my possession. It piracy somehow stopped existing, I would have 0 pirated games, and I would prolly have less than 5 original games in my possession, since there is no way in hell that I give someone my hard earned money before I know all the facts about the product I'm buying. What I'm saying is that in my case I didn't cost legal industry a dime, since I wouldn't buy their products if the choice was to buy or not to have at all, in fact, piracy only helped industry... again I'm pointing out I'm speaking only in my own name.

About FADE protection, it was extremly amusing when I read about it on this thread, and I intend to buy Operation Flashpoint ASAP just because of amazing originality of DRM. I do have the pirated game already, but alas, I wasn't aware of FADE part of equasion until now .

Last, IDK how or why do people like to feed trolls... It is proven fact that trolls feed on attention... I mean when you see someone called "Sly Drivel" you can't really expect anything intelligent coming out of his fingers....
That being said, all of those saying piracy is evil and whatnot rubbish and those saying piracy is great and it should be more present should get poles and meet up with each other on a field, and discuss their differences there, and let the normal people hope that not one of them survives the confrontation. NOTHING is black and white, everything is more or less gray.

Personally I find piracy far less acceptable for games then for say...songs or TV shows. I still have yet to pirate any software other then earlier versions of photoshop (what 15 year old high school student is going to have 600 dollars to pony up for version 6?), it just makes a lot less sense then buying the game especially after direct2drive and stardocks impulse make it way easier to install and play normally. The bane of my PC playing existence is losing CDs and needing them in the drive to play. There is nothing that annoys me more then being punished for the sins of hackers.

As far as buying games goes I see no valid argument for complete piracy. In the case of a song the argument can be made that nothing is REALLY being stolen, I mean what, 4 guys singing and playing instruments for a few hours in a studios is worth 15 dollars? Please. I still usually pay for music (especially with small bands) but the argument against piracy is not particularly strong since the product is so cheap to produce. To anyone who won't make music unless they're paid millions good riddance.

Alternately even a small game developer (perhaps especially a small game developer) spends millions on any decent game. Even galactic civ 2 which didn't spend tens of millions of dollars on render farms and high end textures still cost a good deal of money and time from dozens of workers. Even small company indy games cost millions to make, gone are the days of AOL shareware where two guys could make a functional current game for a few hundred bucks in their spare time. While I can say Metalica is silly for suing its fans over not paying 15 bucks for a few hours of their time I strongly believe it is completely correct for software providers to be angered about piracy especially if they are charging a fair price for their product. There is a much higher connection with quality out and money in with games, music can be made on the cheap in a garage, decent to good games can't anymore.

I do think the cure is worse then the disease however, I absolutely hate DRM in all its forms, especially CD checks and regularly have to crack my own purchased software because using it the "correct" way is so much of a chore. I hope that the future is more like Impulse where you can download, and more importantly redownload, games as often as you want and on as many computers as you want (which is important considering I have 3 I use regularly, all of which can run Gal Civ 2). My only worry is that eventually the service folds and I'm left with the rights to a lot of games I can no longer download.

Of course the easiest DRM of all comes from creating a compelling online experience that is unplayable without a unique purchased CD key. Perhaps there are ways around it where people can play something like Diablo 2 or whatever online without a unique copy, but in theory that's the best future for non DL service DRM. Whatever is done the most important aspect is not making it harder for the honest consumers to use what they paid for; to be honest the pirates will get their stuff for free no matter what, its infinitely easier to crack a lock then design one and every penny spent on clever DRM to be hacked within a week could be spent better tweaking AI or updating textures. I love stardocks approach with Gal Civ 2, Political Machine and Sins of a Solar Empire, I've installed all of them on multiple machines in minutes and they all run flawlessly, if only more companies wrote off the pirates as non sales and just made games easy to install and use like Stardock.


One thing I forgot to add is a semi valid reason for piracy. Buying a game is a BIG investment even for most semi well off 50-80k making families. Even if you make that much with taxes, mortgage payments, car payments, gas, food ect ect ect truly disposable income is seldom above a few hundred dollars a month for most in the gaming demographic (18-mid 30s). That means that there are really only 10-20 games which anyone can purchase in a given year for full price. That is where rentals come in (and no demos are not the same). For games I know will be good I just take the plunge and buy it sight unseen (Metal Gear Solid 4 for instance) but for others I'm not sure about, say Persona 3 for the PS2, I will rent and then decide. Often that works very well since some games like, for example, Ninja Gaiden 2 are not even in the same league with expectations so by renting it for 7 dollars I saved 50 in not buying it's horribleness. With PC games there is really no such option. I bought Gal Civ 2 solely on positive word of mouth (and from playing political machine, which was great) but I would have bought way sooner if I could have played it for real a few years ago. I don't see why there isn't an option for PC game rentals where one pays say 10 dollars which can be applied to the cost of the full game and gets either a set number of full games or a set number of days to try not a small limited demo, but the full game rental style. Like the guy above said to many piracy ends up being the rental market for games, it would seem prudent to have a more legitimate rental model as it would encourage testing of non hyped games at a much greater rate. I know I would have bought Gal Civ years ago if I had known how great it was in 2006 form a real rental demo.

THQ is why Iron Lore failed.

1.They forced them to release their game before it was finishd.
2.They then refused to allocate money for patches to fix the issues with Titan Quest.
3.They then refused to provide funding to Iron Lore for further games.

THQ compromised Iron Lore's artistic integrity, they compromised their works and then they bled them dry.

The fact that an employee of THQ, acting in an official capacity, shows such contempt for their customers should speak volumes about their business tactics and ethics as a whole.

The end result is that I'll never buy another THQ product again.

I see. You stole your way to success. And you've admitted you're a pirate. I'd like to see something you've done. Why not take this opportunity to advertise? Although, I'm pretty sure I liked what you wrote better when George Lucas wrote it and it was called Star Wars.

OM NOM NOM NOM NOM.
I taste good.

Interestingly, he meant to say "stop shooting yourself in the foot" or perhaps "put a foot in your mouth". If I already had one there, I wouldn't be talking. See, that's what happens when you try to take too much from other people at one time. I am curious about him though. He spends time making something and doesn't care about taking the work of others. Maybe it's really because he's never actually created a thing in his life.

Oh, but we've already been over this so many times. You're not even trying and you're not even good. There's really no reason I should spend time on you, except pointing finger and laughing.

Fact is, I just taste so damn good.
Now go away, little troll. Nothing to see here, except delicious cheesecaek.

Is this the average American mind? Are we really that stupid as a whole?

on second thought, I will not feed the trolls

NOM NOM NOM

Delicious caek

You are just afraid to show me your precious work because you know I'd pirate it. Ideas are only free when they're not yours, right?

Tell me. Why don't you make a charitable donation to piracy by giving me everything you've ever written? You suck anyway, and I wouldn't buy it.

A man of no conviction. Who is a pirate I can respect?

THIS. IS. CAEKTOWN

what a discussion.......

i'd say Amen to the guys who thought it through (pirates r not the problem. it's the current solution vs pirates)


Alot of people pirate, and i've had more then enough games whre the developers let me hanging, telling me i should buy a 350$ upgrade for my system or do not reply to any future mails if the problem cant be solved, at those times i give the company a good mail.

"hello, you wil never see me or even worse, my money again, at the moment i am downloading a fix obtained from pirates, wich cost me a staggering 0$ and i will continue to do so for any new software released by your company, think again before dropping a good customer"

i know not all of the companies do it intentionally, but please people THINK, u dont have to be a rocket-scientist to see that the current ways DO NOT WORK....
you keep throwing rocks to try and kil air, plz pay some attention about what's below

(Sigh)

Why must all this nonsense go on? I come on today to get some pictures off the Metaverse for GalCiv. Then I see this Topic here, and I couldn't help but laugh. Sly, your statements make no sense what so ever. Is pirating bad? Sure, Have I done it? Damn straight, Do you feel bad about it? To a minor degree, yes. If I play a pirated game, and it awes me so much that pull an all-nighter on it, I go out and I give the liberty of saying "Great F$#%ing game!" by slapping down $50 on Gamestop's counter. Yet that has happened very rarely. The only games that pop up in my head that I have actually done that is Galactic Civilizations II, Star Wars: KOTOR, and of course Elder Scrolls IV. Though I take deep consideration into my games before I buy them, like most pirates I'm not rich. As stated before though, when the Pirated version of the game is actually more functional then the game from the developer I choose to support the people of the web, but once again that has happened rarely (Seems EA is starting a pattern). Anyway getting back to the argument, (cough) did I say Argument? Oh I'm sorry in order to have a argument there has to be two sides, and it appears there is only one. I'm sorry but saying "It's wrong" and "Your stealing Ideas" along with adding a few "Liberal"s and insults in the mix barely accounts for a true argument. No one is 'stealing ideas', you aren't thinking straight if you think this, considering pirates are COPYING the games. I know, a wonderful concept right? They aren't taking the ideas and making their own game with it, but they are actually taking the time to put that game on their computer, make a crack for it and distribute its wonders throughout the community for all to enjoy. The game was already made and distributed! Therefor the 'Idea' cannot be taken. Of course it isn't making the person who made it too happy, but I'm pretty sure he will live considering the majority of people on this Earth do not know a.) WTF a torrent it, b.) How to use torrents, (Provided your using torrents to get your games which is the most popular way) or c.) Are rich enough to just go out and buy the damn thing. I'm sorry but why don't the corporations instead devise a new way to make games, music, and movies cheaper? I mean every movie DVD must cost what...$.70? to make? And yet we are paying $20-$25 for it? Add in shipping and minor profit and you should get a DVD that costs no more then $5. There is no need to pay an Actor tens upon thousands of dollars for acting! Put that into the Props and effects budget and you got a cheaper movie! WTF! Its the very simple fact that we are paying some people too much for too little. Rappers? Getting Millions? Bullshit, enough to get you through the year with some extra bonus to make yourself happy is ALL they should get those greedy f%$#ing bastards.

BTW you seem very racist considering to think other countries are "Barbaric", if ANY country were to deserve such a title it would only be Canada, those damn Canadian bastards need to die (Sarcasm)! If any countries should be labeled as such it might as well be the U.S. and U.K. We both made countries around the world FUBAR, and are trying to repair the damages (Failing pretty badly).

Oh shit, I better get back before those 'Barbaric' Alterians destroy my shit.

commie

I'm a communist because I choose not to trash talk other countries? Wow...

TO ANY MODERATOR READING THIS TOPIC:

I feel highly insulted by the user named "SlyDrivel" constant name-calling and insulting of other people. At the very least his latest posts have been pure trolling attempts, at the worst purely insulting.

I ask that this topic be locked before it becomes a total flame thread and also ask that the moderators take some kind of action with the user "SlyDrivel" to ensure that him/her can no longer troll these forums.

Obviously he's not a commie. But you might be a nervous pirate. Is that the name calling you were talking about? Or did you mean when I called the woman who is convinced that every black person on the planet hates her a racist? But I guess what she said is not trolling because so many people agree with her. Is that the reason any post condoning piracy is legit but any condemning it deserves retribution?

No, no, no, you are mixing up two very different positions. Most of the people in this thread aren't defending the pirates, we are criticising the counter-productive methods that some companies use to combat them. I don't pirate games and movies. I am very, very skilled at getting hold of legitimate copies of older games at a good price. I already own more games than I currently play at low prices. I also want those who make said game to be properly paid for them. If I can't afford a game, I just don't buy it.

On the other hand, game companies hurt their own sales and themselves are promoting piracy by using DRM that makes games difficult to play. Plus piracy is not costing them as much money as they think it does for the reasons I briefly outlined above.

Titan Quest...

I heard it was a Diablo clone.

Since the game turned a profit, the idea that they went under because of piracy is absurd. They used a very stupid DRM system, caused themselves a shit load of grief they could have avoided by making the game easier to crack. Anything that gives you more tech support is a big fucking no no, especially when the people you're wasting time with didn't even buy the game. Fade is a brilliantly stupid system.

An unimaginative and boring Diablo clone still turns a profit with high system requirements and DRM that makes people think the game is even more buggy than usual. Naturally piracy killed them.

"No, no, no, you are mixing up two very different positions. Most of the people in this thread aren't defending the pirates, we are criticising the counter-productive methods that some companies use to combat them. I don't pirate games and movies. I am very, very skilled at getting hold of legitimate copies of older games at a good price. I already own more games than I currently play at low prices. I also want those who make said game to be properly paid for them. If I can't afford a game, I just don't buy it."

Ok, while I'm not going to steal Spore if it comes with the activation limit, at this point it's one and the same. I'm defending the pirates because at this point I consider them the lesser of two evils. I mean the real dirtbags too, not just the ones that try before they buy to avoid getting fucked in the ass. Guys that download every game they play and never even consider paying for them are above EA in my view with the news coming out of the Bioware boards over Mass Effect.

Refused activations, long distance tech support being needed to get a shot at them, week long waits to play their games, activations being invalidated over fucking driver updates. If you broke into a house and stole the physical components from another user, you'd at least not be stealing from someone that gave you their business.

The silence from EA is deafening. No recognition at all of the severe lack of honesty, and a general purpose EULA that was written to give them the right to defraud their own customers.

No, he wants the thread locked because you're a TROLL.

I mean, come on... you even changed your name just for this one post. This is a hilarious joke hardy har har you makes teh lolz gud.

Now shut up and someone lock this.

here here!


I have also had to use pirated software in order to get a legal purchase of mine to work as it should. Though pirating could be considered wrong, I think that most pirates will buy a piece of software they find useful. They only pirate a copy to try it out. I've met MANY people who have even told me their first copy of Sins was pirated, but they went out and bought it later.

I bought Mass Effect, and even though I was lucky enough to not have it cause issues over activation, I intend to peruse the net these days for a crack.
Why?
Because I bought a digital download version, have the installation files manually packed for storage on a DVD and it *still* is hogging 10GB of hard drive space because - I dare not uninstall it. Its a great game, like most which came from Bioware, and I would like to play it again one day, but I really don't want to waste time on a capricious DRM. Ever. I don't even want to hop on to the net even though I have flat-rate broadband, simply out of principle.

I bought the product, and I should not be dictated the terms of PERSONAL usage as long as that usage does not infringe on the rights and freedoms of other private individuals, EULA be damned.

So in this case I am forced to go to the pirates just to improve the quality of a product and/or service I paid for.

And that's why the gaming industry is suffering. When pirates act as a "supplementary" customer support, when you have to go to them to ensure your rights as a paying consumer are fulfilled in a fair manner, then one has to pause for a moment and reconsider the state of commercial publishing standards and overall quality of service deemed acceptable by the development companies.

I cant believe this thread is still going. Somebody lock it and stop the idiot who posted it from embarrassing himself any more.

See, I have trouble believing this. I have experienced DRM, and it's not a big impediment. Even the 10 day recurring internet check wouldn't be that bad. I don't see what the big deal is if you are not a pirate, and I don't think there is one.



You can only buy the rights to a product that are for sale. Your "natural" gaming rights include not being able to play the game and reading a book instead.

I have the sims 2, and I have to put the CD in my drive everytime I want to play. I guess that's annoying, but it's not that bad. It's certainly not as bad a deal as pirates want it to be.