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What do you guys, think space warfare should be like.

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What do you guys, think space warfare should be like.

a post for all those who love and hate walls of ships killing other walls of ship.

from Sins Forums

What do you guys, think space warfare should be like.

Did you guy see it as walls ships killing other walls of ship. Or did you see space warfare as artillery duels. Or did you see space battles, as assassin or submarine battle in which ship had to find each other in order to kill each other.

What roles did you think that each class of ship should of fallen into. And what would of been the difference between each ship of the same time in the other factions. Like in star wars empire at war, how the empire had all of it capital ship be fighter carriers, and the rebel that had to build fighter and capital ship, instead of just the capital ship.

UPDATA SECTION

This part is my updata based on all of your guys great input. Also I will try to sum up some of the many points, so people will not have to read 10+ pages to understand, where we are.

First, we need to ask are selfs four important questions. These questions will change everthing, more then if there is stealth in space, or if space fighters make any sense.

Question

1. Is there FTL technolgy and how does it work? From what I have seen, there better be some FTL drive in the future, or there will be little to nothing to fight over. The second part of the question of how it work, changes weapons and tactics. If the FTL drive or technolgy is based on a point in spaces, then these points, become choke points. Also the size of the FTL technolgy is important, as if the technolgy is small enoght to be put into a fighter, then why not a missile, that you could FTL into your enemy.

2. Is there FTL sensors? Can I detect an enemy ship in real time moving at FTL speeds? Can my sensors see into the next jump point?

3. Is there FTL Communications? Can I send orders to a fleet in another system, or will I have to send a ship?

4. This is the most under asked question from my point of view. Can I use the FTL technolgy itself, as a weapon.

I'm right now working on some space warfare models to show what I thing space warfare will be like, after all your input. Please add try to answer these questions and any others I will post, as this helps with the models.

Thank you for all your post.

631,794 views 262 replies
Reply #101 from Sins Forums Top
when you think about it, theres f*** all in space to fight over, so its still gonna be a case of orbital to upper atmostphere combat. discuss.


There wasn't any thing to fight over in the americas when they where first discovered and yet it wasn't long until they were fought over.

A better analogy to space will be an ocean. space is a medium that you go through to other places like planets (island/ continents) and got resources like astroids filled with metalls and ice (deep sea drilling/ fishing).

Warder
Elemental: Reforged
Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top
HelloJust for the record I want to say that I AM an Aerospace engineer. Wanderer17, You are being a jerk, a somewhat knowledgeable jerk but still a jerk, do not take every thing you read like a word from God and please drop the attitude, it's not helping.Having said that I would like to point Wanderer that your basic points are quite valid allthough I don't agree with your conclusions.Lets assume that you have your Nuke-Missle armed ships what is thier Delta-V? what is the missile Delta-V? do you have PD? and if so of what kind? what is your Magazine capacity? how many missile can you fire in one barrage? and the most important question, how much will it cost.We have a saying: "An angineer is some who can build in 1 cent what every idiot can build in 1 dollar"I'm not going to speculate how space combat will be mainlly because I got to get back to work, I will recommend that you take a look in Attack Vector:Tactical.It is the most accurate hard sci-fi simulation game out there that I know off.Warder


My being a jerk has no bearing in a debate. Besides, since you say you are an Engineer can you please give your license number that I can verify, I want to make sure you are not a poser as I deal with enough of those on the net. Especially with people who claim to be an Attorney. Now I may not have my Bar License yet, but I know enough to not give legal advice over the internet in unsecured chat boards and forums and spot self proclaimed Attorneys who probably aren't. As a matter of fact, I don't give legal advice period as I don't have a license yet.

As for the Delta-V calcs, ship wise Delta-V depends on what the Ship is supposed to be for a particular mission. For now I'll assume a ship of the line that has an interstellar Delta-V budget.

As for missiles, more likely than not we are talking no less than an AU range missiles.

PD is always a given as well as Distance and can compose of Lasers, definitely not plasma weapons, definitely RAM Batteries, Phalanx CIWS, and nuclear missiles as well. Also ECM/ECCM will play a factor.

Magazine capacity depends on the size of the weapons, the size of the ship, and how much space is given for ammo storage and how much of what type of weapon is stored. So numbers are all over the place.



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Reply #105 from Sins Forums Top
I'd imagine it to be much the same as Sins, just not so organised but all the concepts of ships work their roles and types of damage. I can imagine space battle been a moving battle where ships get up close to blast each other as well as long ranged.

Also makes me laugh when people get all serious about things like this, and try to fit logic and todays technology and known rules about the universe into a topic which just asks for your imagination.
Reply #107 from Sins Forums Top
Hey that was a shot at me wasn't it?


LOL :LOL:

I have no intention what so ever to disclose any kind of personal information to strangers in public media, sorry, it seems like you'll just have to belive me.

Wanderer, the main problem with your arguments is, you don't give parameters for your "facts" and worse you treat everyone else who dissagree with you like they are small kids who don't know nothing.
I'm not saying that I disagree with you OTOH i'm not saying that I agree either, it's all depends on so many factors that we can't calculate the outcome.

For every space combat scenario that you propose you need to lay down several parameters first, for exemple:

1. Is in newtonian?
2. What is your main propulsion method?
3. What the general tech levels in: computer science, sensors, physics, lasers\rail guns\missiles etc etc...
4. What is the space navy mission?
5. Do you fight humanes or aliens?
6. Economic level?
7. Level of space industry?
8. Etc etc etc....

Once you have the basic parameters laid down you can start proposing your ideas and state them as facts.

If you want to get some basic knowledge on spaceflight, I really recommend reading Intreduction to spaceflight by francis Hale, excellent reading.

Warder




Reply #108 from Sins Forums Top
Ships should be constantly losing parts, deforming, etc, because of all the acceleration stresses on ships that have taken a pounding. If the ships ever collide directly with one another, all that force should be applied with a gaussian distribution to the hulls at the point of impact...

Demo Derby in Space!!!
Reply #110 from Sins Forums Top
LOL I have no intention what so ever to disclose any kind of personal information to strangers in public media, sorry, it seems like you'll just have to belive me.


Uh no, you made the claim to being an Engineer, which is a regulated title limited by law to those who have a degree in Engineering and a License to practice it in some jurisdictions.

Claiming to be an engineer when you are not is illegal in many jurisdictions, so I asked for a license number or a degree with your name and the school you went to.

I'll make it easy by giving my Degree Information so you can see who I am.

I am Thomas B. Golladay Jr, I was awarded an Associate of Science Degree in Paralegal Studies on the month of December 2007 from Davenport University.

Student ID number was 009148766.

This is public information, everyone is free to call up Davenport University and ask if they will confirm who I am and if I was indeed a graduate. Just tell them you are a prospecting Employer who want to ensure I am who I say I am.

Number is (616) 395-4600 for the Holland Campus or (616) 698-7111 for the W.A. Lettinga Main Campus.

Now I am waiting.



Reply #111 from Sins Forums Top
well it was probably prompted by my post, i did have a more detailed entry but i accidently his Ctrl-R (refresh) and i didn't feel like rewriting.

so thats my excuse, but i agree with you that sins style space warfare would be cool
Reply #112 from Sins Forums Top
I'll make it easy by giving my Degree Information


I would erase that if I were you.... how can I know you didn't pulled this information from the public record? (don't answer that it's not relevant)

I'm an engineer, if you don't believe me than you are free to ignore me from now on.

Warder

Reply #113 from Sins Forums Top
Warderin is right on that. Do not disclose such information easily unless you absolutely needed to.
Reply #114 from Sins Forums Top
I'll make it easy by giving my Degree Information I would erase that if I were you.... how can I know you didn't pulled this information from the public record? (don't answer that it's not relevant)I'm an engineer, if you don't believe me than you are free to ignore me from now on.Warder


Uh no, besides I have Lifelock ;)

Look Wardin, when I make a claim I back it up. You claimed to be an engineer, now you are refusing to prove it. As I said before that is a regulated title. If you are uncomfortable releasing that information to the wider public, either PM me or show it to the staff here who can then authoritatively say you are an engineer.

But don't claim to hold a regulated title in a public forum, especially as an aerospace engineer which is a licensed profession without being ready to prove it upon demand.

Reply #115 from Sins Forums Top
I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it :NOTSURE: tough.

Anyway, my slow week is about to end tomorrow so it's back to the slave pits for me, good luck on your bar exams and please lay down on the jerkiness :p

Warder
Reply #116 from Sins Forums Top
what if LifeLock were an evil ploy to get people to disclose everything easily (Do'H!!!) :NOTSURE:
Reply #117 from Sins Forums Top
Ok,ok, back on topic everone. I don't want this post to turn into the BETA 1.1 post, were we are not talking about the topic.

New questions to everone.

Can we track and there for destory kinetic kill missiles( the shell type)?

If we could build FTL drive and could make them small enought to put into a fighter, and those small drive would have fast rechange, but low jump range, could it mean that we could have fighters jump next to a target unload and jump back and rearm? Would this make fighters usefull?

Reply #118 from Sins Forums Top
We cannot build FTL drive in the first place.
Reply #119 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not saying that we can or can't build FTL. I'm saying "if" we could build them, and we did this with them, will it work. It more of a question if we could make space fighters usefull.
Reply #120 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not saying that we can or can't build FTL. I'm saying "if" we could build them, and we did this with them, will it work. It more of a question if we could make space fighters usefull.


Homefleet, you can not make space fighters practible. Bombers maybe, though they will more likely be used for boarding suspicious ships, planetary bombing in support of ground invasions, and limited space combat as a last resort weapon.
Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top
Ok,ok, back on topic everone. I don't want this post to turn into the BETA 1.1 post, were we are not talking about the topic.New questions to everone. Can we track and there for destory kinetic kill missiles( the shell type)?If we could build FTL drive and could make them small enought to put into a fighter, and those small drive would have fast rechange, but low jump range, could it mean that we could have fighters jump next to a target unload and jump back and rearm? Would this make fighters usefull?


There is no stealth in space unless you throw out the laws of thermodynamics, which has consequences all by itself, so yes they will be detected. Getting a target lock is another matter.

Reply #122 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not saying that there is stealth in space, we are past that point. I'm asking if Point defense systems, that can be used against missiles, be used against kinetic kill missiles( non engine fired from a rail gun or coil gun type weapon)?

I also can see you point in the fighter thing. If we have a PD system that can track and destory missiles, then no matter how fast a fighter is, even if it could jump, it would be destoryed too.

But lets look at my first question, if we can use PD against kinetic kill weapons.
Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top
We cannot build FTL drive in the first place.

Read my last posts regarding FTL theory...it might, might be possible...

I'm not saying that there is stealth in space, we are past that point. I'm asking if Point defense systems, that can be used against missiles, be used against kinetic kill missiles( non engine fired from a rail gun or coil gun type weapon)?

Well, I don't think it will work...since normally to destroy missile you either make it explode prematurely or disable the detonator...(my guess...)...that won't work with shells which only gets its destructive power from its kinetic energy...

Only thing I can think of is either divert its path, or shoot a shell at it...
Reply #124 from Sins Forums Top
Good point onyhow. So Point defense wouldn't work on kinetic kill weapons? That would mean thatkinetic kill weapons would be long range weapons in laser have beam spread in outer space.

So what do you think about my jump drone ideal, onyhow?

Also RomanSpy did you play the second battlezone.